Livin'Lite closing down

[FastEddieB]

As a data point, LivinLite advertised the tongue weight of the 21BHS as 440 lbs, albeit with an asterisk.

When we finally weighed ours, normally loaded, it was about 625 lbs.

Best to take manufacturers numbers with a huge grain of salt.

[Apollo]

So Doug,

The AL floor, sides and roof are gone; the outside storage below the dinette window is gone; the square cornered outside storage doors are gone; the inside electric WH switch is gone; the AL cabinets and aircraft latches are all but gone; the axle capacities are reduced; the torsion axles are gone;the AL frame is going; the customer service and responsiveness are gone; but other than that the construction remains the same?? Scott, we need you ..................................

Can you imagine how buyers of the new "venture" trailers are gonna feel when they come here after buying their expensive camper an learn how they used to be built? can't even begin to describe my disgust with thor, cheap lippert steel frames on a livinlite?? I can't even believe it.

[GoElectric]

Besides camping, my other interest is bass fishing.  I am seeing a similar trend as Thor buying other trailer brands with Johnny Morris/BPS (Bass Pro Shops) that own Tracker and Nitro boats, buying up competitive bass boat brands.  They have purchased the major competitors Ranger, Triton, Stratos, and Legend.  Triton and Stratos are rumored to be eliminated.  Fiberglass bass boat prices have skyrocketed averaging $40k to $90k and smaller aluminum bass boats are now becoming very popular.  Unlike our aluminum Camplites, fiberglass boats generally out perform, are more stable, more comfortable, faster, and larger, however aluminum boats are much better priced roughly $10k - $35k.  Which brings up the other point of this post, it is rumored that raw aluminum material prices will be soaring way up this year and next in the boat industry just as these lower priced aluminum pontoon, fishing, and pleasure boats are becoming immensely popular.  I wonder if Livin' Lite knows this and will put a already higher priced camper into the not practical price range.  They already seem to be doing all they can to eliminate as much aluminum as possible in the product.  Just some thoughts.  I found a link discussing the increase below, but picked up most info on boat and fishing forums:

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/industry-news/sheet-aluminum-prices-could-rise-sharply

[DavidM]

Interesting article and observations. You can put an import duty on an important commodity like aluminum sheet and it will drive the cost up for US manufacturers, their prices will have to rise to accommodate the rise in supplier prices and the demand for the things that they make will fall as a result. The jobs lost to that demand drop can be many times the jobs saved by the commodity duties.

Same thing will happen as a result of the 30% solar panel duties recently imposed. We might save a couple of hundred jobs in the remaining two US solar panel manufacturers but loose a hundred times that in the solar panel installation industry.

Putting a duty on a commodity rarely pays out in terms of jobs saved even if that commodity is being dumped into the US. Paul Krugman has been saying that for years.

David

[charliem]

Any doubts about the future of CLs can be dispelled by visiting http://venture-rv.com. Even the top line SportTrek Touring Edition promotes lots of wood, steel and residential construction. The floor is 5/8 plywood on 2x3 joists. Ceiling and walls have wood sheathing.  Great long-life, low maintenance mentality.

[MitchB]

I think the only hope for an aluminum rv similar to the camplite will be if IntechRV adds them to it's line up. As I'm sure you all know, Scott Tuttle has purchased an interest in that company.

[PaulJ]

When you own Air Stream, what need do you have for a Camplite? Writing was on the wall when Thor purchased Livin Lite. And yes, they have made it sh*t Lite. I am so sad I have a great trailer and Thor has reduced it to just another travel trailer.  I love my 21BRS and will just keep it till I die, it's that simple. We had our beloved Casita 16 yrs; bought for 10K and sold for $8,500. I hope the rarity of my Aluminum Trailer will also keep its value in the future. We have no intention of selling ever, but if we did I would build my own trailer form a modified cargo van.  Sad that quality and value are GONE. Wood rots, roofs leak - Thor sales go up! Sad! I paid cash for ours but to think they are financing for 15 years, good luck folks.

[Capt J-rod]

I traveled a strange path to end up with a camplite. I love to restore and do crazy projects that others just laugh at. After tent camping the wife decided we needed a trailer to continue... I wanted an old airstream and I was going to frame off restore it. The wife refused to wait 3 years and "spend more than just buying a damn trailer". I found a 2007 19' jayco from a friend of a friend in 2014. I figured it's only 7 years old and he used it 6 times. The roof looked like it had a "little leak" in the front corner and I bought it for $2500. A STEAL RIGHT? Well the little leak ended up being an entire roof. The way they flashed the walls turned the floor to mush in the back 1/2. I lovingly replaced all the bad wood, re-sheeted the roof, replaced the membrane with commercial white Firestone white rubber, separated the trailer from the frame and replaced the back 2/3 of the floor, laid engineered hardwood flooring, and essentially frame off restored a 7 year old Jayco rather than the airstream I wanted. After seeing how campers were built I was furious. It could all have been prevented for about $500 in additional material and some better installation. I stumbled into camplite up by Traverse City MI and was very impressed to find a camper that was built the way I would have done it and better. Thor owns Airstream as well and I'm sure they're messing with that product line as well. I'm glad I bought what I did when I did. All this being said, I'm sure that another company will step up to fill the void. We just have to wait and see. Until then I am thankful that I got a 2015 that still holds true to the original design.  I did however make money on the Jayco when I sold it thank god. I think I got about $4.00/hr for my work LOL.

[MitchB]

The Captain brings up a point that is probably important to realize. Those of us here watching the changes with a magnifying glass and commenting one way or the other on each thing are the minority.  I suspect the vast majority of trailer owners buy a damn camper and go camping. They don't agonize over the way the battery box sits on the tongue or the fact that 8 gauge wire would transmit .02 volts more over 8 feet then 10 gauge wire (don't fact check that, I made it up). Face it, we're the nerds of the camper world and manufacturers really don't market to the nerd segment.

[Capt J-rod]

Go to any RV show. Count the number of people looking at the bed, the countertops, the storage, the lighting, the TV and stereo and obsessing over the payment and terms. Then walk around the outside and see how many people are looking underneath and checking the physical structure. You're right @MitchB nobody knows or cares about the bones or the roof until its a problem. By then its out of warranty and you are on your own. Almost forgot, the bank still wants their money, leaks, rot, rust or not!

[Steve Sanders]

Almost forgot, the bank still wants their money, leaks, rot, rust or not!

The bank isn't selling the RV or determining if you should buy the it or not. They are simply making it possible for you to buy what you want to buy with money you don't have yet, as long as you promise to pay them back. And yes, they want their money back... As they should.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[GoElectric]

Back in 2006 when we made the move from popup to travel trailer, we were not impressed by the cheap, musty, leaky formaldehyde boxes at the time and always have liked Airstream, specifically looking at the Bambi.  After doing research on those, I found they have severe rust issues with their steel frame from improper joining of dissimilar metals, moisture getting in the fiberglass insulation, and poorly, thinly lacquer painted frames.  Also, they also had leak issues and rotted wood floors and they are very high priced compared to other brands.  We decided on the Sunline Que which was a newer concept at the time, that focused on high quality construction and was just a little cheaper than the Bambi at the time at $27K.  Well Sunline went out business shortly after introducing it, and we lucked up and found a new one for half price.  However, although better built than most, it still had it's issues, mainly maintenance on that 10 year synthetic rubber roof they touted, and we did not care for that new composite floor because of the hard aluminum beams every couple feet.  There was no comparison to the quality we find in our Camplite.

Even though as geeks, engineers, and nerds  we still just want camp and enjoy it hassle free with a reliable camper without all the maintenance and distractions that should not be there.  We had come to the conclusion that was impossible, and that no such thing existed, until we found the Camplite brand.  I doubt we will see another aluminum camper unless a small specialty niche company builds it, because the auto and boat industry and every other booming industry is making extensive use and high demand for aluminum, probably making impractical for RV's.  We also won't be selling our Camplite either.

[DavidM]

Face it, we're the nerds of the camper world and manufacturers really don't market to the nerd segment.

Yes, most of us Camplite owners are nerds. I would have thought that with proper marketing there would have been enough of us to keep a quality built, all aluminum and Azdel camper going. That was no doubt Scott Tuttle's concept when he introduced the line.

Unfortunately Thor didn't embrace that concept, and kept dumbing down the product year by year until it no longer appealed to us nerds, but still was too expensive for the mass market and it had to be shut down.

The history of business is full of such stories.

David

[djsamuel]

It was mentioned in a previous message, but I am wondering about the impact of the increasing cost of aluminum has on this decision. Ford is feeling the effects due to their reliance on aluminum, especially the F150.

[MitchB]

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Yes, most of us Camplite owners are nerds. I would have thought that with proper marketing there would have been enough of us to keep a quality built, all aluminum and Azdel camper going.

David
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I would have thought that also, but that's cause we're nerds and we think alike.