Livin Lite Forum

[DavidM]

That is a little harsh. Thor has changed specs and materials to hold the line on costs while offering some benefits in practicality (composite floors) and aesthetics (wood paneled cabinets). This hasn't always been successful, witness the screws pulling out from under the composite floor.

LL under Tuttle held to the purity of the no rot concept. Thor has held to that premise fairly well with only a few missteps. Construction quality (apart from design specs) has definitely worsened it seems under Thor's ownership.

Like I said on another thread (or was it the LL forum) I probably wouldn't buy a new Thor built LL but I might buy a new one made the Tuttle way for a little more than what Thor now charges.

David

[Merlin]

Some good changes, some bad changes, but still a no-rot, no-rust camper. As I help a friend look for a first-time camper, I find myself avoiding campers with wood and steel and that brings me back to the value of Camplite.

Maybe someone should plan a big mid-west meetup and invite LL reps? I found the 2 factory reps that attended the PNW meetup in '16 (including Dave Boggs) to be interested in, and listening to, the dozen or so owners that showed up. The more the VIPs hear from owners that is not filtered by dealers or by the noise of the Internet the better! Maybe I'll float the idea of a meetup at Indiana Dunes State Park again in the meetup thread and see if there is interest.

[Pinstriper]

Keep in mind we don't know any more about what happened with Dan than we do about Christian. It isn't automatically an indication or corporate direction, intent, whatever.

That said, I remain unconvinced of their floor and roof changes. I KNOW my aluminum will be durable, and can't imagine the rubber and composites will do better, even if they are a step up from conventional plywood and fiberglass - it's still a step back from aluminum. And heavier, too !

I am immovably convinced that their move away from dual axles on the 14's and most 16's is a mistake. The current models are heavier dry, have lower gwr. That is inarguable. My experience tells me a dual axle trailer rides easier and handles better.

The wood cabinet fronts ? Meh. Adds weight, but is a cure for the razor edges.

In summation, Camplites are sadly moving farther and farther away from what made them a desirable product, and closer to just-another-RV with their "mainstream" changes.

[Paul]

I can't wait to get my 2018 21BHS out of storage. I didn't really had time to really appreciate all the change they did to know if I made a good decision or not trading my 2015 13QBB because my unit went directly to storage from the dealer. But all I can tell is that I was really impressed by the looks of it. It looks way better than my 2015!! Hopefully I don't regret, I'll only be able to tell when I get it out of storage! I can't wait to see the reaction at my seasonal site since my trailer is blue!

[djsamuel]

Keep in mind we don't know any more about what happened with Dan than we do about Christian. It isn't automatically an indication or corporate direction, intent, whatever.

That said, I remain unconvinced of their floor and roof changes. I KNOW my aluminum will be durable, and can't imagine the rubber and composites will do better, even if they are a step up from conventional plywood and fiberglass - it's still a step back from aluminum. And heavier, too !

I am immovably convinced that their move away from dual axles on the 14's and most 16's is a mistake. The current models are heavier dry, have lower gwr. That is inarguable. My experience tells me a dual axle trailer rides easier and handles better.

The wood cabinet fronts ? Meh. Adds weight, but is a cure for the razor edges.

In summation, Camplites are sadly moving farther and farther away from what made them a desirable product, and closer to just-another-RV with their "mainstream" changes.

From what I've heard, Dan retired.  He had written a few emails to me where he expressed his desire to retire and possibly move to the Florida area where his children live.  If that's the case, I wish him the best.  It seems as though Paul at Livin Lite has taken over for Dan, although more on the Facebook page than the forum.  He posted his email on the forum.  It is paul.r@livinlite.com .

[Apollo]

It's been hard to watch over the last couple years as Thor has systematically (or sloppily) denuded the once superior LL/Cl brand. The only CL champion left standing was Dan. With him gone from the company (can't blame him for walking away), there is no hope to rise to former glory. The bean counters have won, and we all lose. Thor bought a brand unique in its ethos and innovation, only to factory farm our once exotic breed. I'm so glad we have a 2014 13QBB from the good ol' days. They don't make them like they used to and they never will again.

I feel bad for all the recent LL purchasers who focused their buying decision based on years worth of genuine warm and fuzzy sentiment from previous ownership, reviews and accolades. Seems a little bait and switch to ride on a reputation no longer deserved. Perhaps a new filter for this forum should include a "Pre Thor" and "Post Thor" option.

RIP LL : (

Can I get an AMEN!



"Thor has changed specs and materials to hold the line on costs while offering some benefits in practicality (composite floors)"

Seriously?? a plastic floor that can't hold a screw is a benefit in practicality over an aluminum one that can support livestock? What thor actually did was save a lot of money and left the consumer with an inferior component.

Personally I don't believe thor is making the product better, they are selling things like led mood lighting and getting rid of stuff like aluminum roofs and floors. You pays your money and you take your choices.


Scott Tuttle, where are you??!! Come back! LOL

[PaulJ]

Thor has left the door open for another small trailer start up company to appear and build what Scott built. There is now a void; and voids are eventually filled, I hope it is soon! I really do not want to have to build a camper from an all aluminum cargo trailer if I get rid of my LL.  The one good thing Thor has done is the new rear kitchen unit, I like the floor plan; but why pay more for the LL when you can get similar plans CHEAPER.  KZ had a similar plan as do many other stick trailers.

[whitefish]

I can say that I did like some of Thor's floor plan change ups (especially in the 16 and 21 footers), but I'm sure with time LL would have gotten there as well.

I often wonder whether Thor sees the all aluminum trailer as a fad that they will eventually do away with (or change it to the point that calling it an aluminum trailer would be a stretch). Seems like they are already going in that direction.

[FastEddieB]

Yesterday a fellow at an RV service facility repeated the rumor that the LivinLite, or at least the Camplite, brand was going to be retired later this year.

No idea if its accurate.

[Capt J-rod]

We overlook one major factor on here guys... Very few of us bought a camplite first. The first camplite I saw I balked at it and said no way. BUT I had just stepped out of a 22' tandem axle airstream and into a camplite on the dealers lot. When you look at smooth curved designer interiors with leather couches and then step into an aluminum floor and industrial cabinetry your mind is in shock. That night I went back to the campground in northern Michigan and low and behold there was a 16dbs behind me. I struck up a conversation and the owner was kind enough to give me the tour. After learning what it really was and why they did it, things all started to make sense. Foolishly I had just done a frame off restoration on my 2007 Jayco and I wanted to get some more return on my time and investment. Fast forward to last summer, I was snooping around this site and discovered the merger and the "improvements by Thor" I quickly started looking and found a mint 2015rbs and struck a deal. The moral of the story is that people who don't work on their trailer or understand the building process, (which is probably more than 50% of camper owners) look at the couch and the layout, then the payment, and finally try to decide how much status this will earn them in society. I am very drawn to the airstream line. Sleek, luxury, well made, and iconic. But I can't justify a $70k trailer. My buddies that have campers thought I was crazy spending more on a used smaller camper than they did on a brand new one. KZ makes money building and selling trailers. The more they sell the more they make. They will do whatever they can to speed up production and reduce the costs. They have no intentions of building a camper that will last 20 years.

[FastEddieB]

We overlook one major factor on here guys... Very few of us bought a camplite first.

We did. Our first RV of any kind.

Bought after frequenting Airforums.com and contemplating an Airstream. Problems with rotten floors and fliform corrosion and many other quality control issues dissuaded us.

I believe we found the Camplite brand just by Googling "aluminum travel trailer". Still pleased with the size we chose, and satisfied, if not overly thrilled, with the quality control. For us, for now, it's a keeper. But would not buy a new one.

[Merlin]

Our Camplite is also our first camper (other than a really fancy 3 room tent!). I don't like the "1950's" look of the Airstream, both inside and out. And, no slides so the interior seems cramped on an Airstream. I think Camplite hit a great niche when first released and still occupies an important place in the camper market. But I think @Capt J-rod has it right that the vast majority of buyers are looking at the "sizzle" and not the "steak" and really don't care about (or understand about) longevity. I repeat myself when I say the RV industry needs an independent quality rating/reporting service. If QA/QC, warranty claims, longevity, and breakdown information were available to buyers, I think the market would quickly change for the better as folks took that into account when buying.

[Capt J-rod]

The camper industry is controlled by very few big hitters. Thor being one of the biggest. They are controlling the new trailers as well as the aftermarket with the camper world chain. Suppliers are forced to conform to the demands or there will be no sales. What I hate about campers is the constant changes with no support for last year's product. Our windows in our trailer a re a great example. They were an amazing product that was imported from Europe, but no one is really supporting the line and Campsite has moved on to a new product. Out of warranty? Out of luck. Every merge takes away something.
All this being said I think @Merlin is right that there is a demand for a quality product. I also think there is money available to do it right. There is a happy medium between the $18k Starcraft/Jayco and the $75k Airstream. The problem is in hiring skilled passionate employees and build times. Then when you are building the same amount of trailers in a year that Thor builds in two days, you don't get great pricing. All of this makes me happy to have what I have and make sure I take care of it and preserve it. What sucks is that new 23' layout is awesome, but not even on the radar thanks to the materials.

[GrampaKilt]

A 2014 14DB is my first and last RV. Call me strange, but one of the reasons I bought the CL was its durability that surely will outlast me. After I'm gone, this TT can and will be used by the next generation. I'm really tired of the planned obsolescence built into things we buy. How utterly wasteful. Thankful am I to purchase a Camplite a few years after the first rudimentary editions, but before the buy out by Thor began the inevitable slide towards mediocrity. GK

[djsamuel]

More stories on the LivinLite Facebook page confirming that all LivinLite lines will be shut down by June.  I have no idea how accurate they are, but they seem to be coming from multiple sources.