Tongue Weight

[Merlin]

Given the importance of tongue weight and my interest in data, I "invested" in a Sherline 0-1000 lb tongue weight scale when Amazon lowered the price last month. It is tested to 5% accuracy and is very easy to use. I simply set it on my floor jack and lifted it up into the trailer tongue, making sure the trailer was level and off the stabilizer jacks when I read the scale.

So, my winter storage tongue weight of the 2015 16TBS was 320 lbs, plus or minus 16 lbs. This was with the 3 water/waste tanks empty, two 70 lb batteries on the tongue, two propane tanks with one full and one half full, our usual collection of stuff in the pass-through, no food or other stuff like clothes and towels that go in/out with every trip, and the patio mat in the garage, not in its usual spot on the rear bumper.

I'm eager to see what the tongue weight is after we fit out for our spring camping trip to Lake Huron in about 2 months. I'm also looking into having the rear bumper doubled and putting our bike rack back there. That could change tongue weight! I'll report back with more data as we de-winterize and load up.

[Merlin]

When we fit out for our first spring trip, fully loaded with the usual camping stuff, food, and water, the tongue weight went up to 540 lbs, plus or minus about 27 lbs. Now all I need to do is stop by the scales and weigh the trailer fully loaded to get the full picture. I'm well within the 700 lb rating of the coupler and I did install the grade 8 side bolts last year.

[DavidM]

Your tongue weight is pretty close to our 2013 twin axle 16TBS when you account for our one battery and one propane tank, but a fair amount of stuff in the pass through. We are right at 300 lbs. It is surprising that even though that is probably only about 8.5% of the trailer weight, we have no sway with no WDH.

David

[mojospeople]

So with the gracious help of Merlin, I took some tongue weight measurements yesterday. I wanted to run it by folks to get input on my methods. Attached is a picture of how I did it. The driveway is not level but I leveled the camper then brought the scale up under the tongue and lifted it just enough to take all the load. My reading with the camper right at  level was 625 pounds.

For reference - the front bin is full of our normal gear plus 3 bundles of wood that I don't normally carry. However, it will give me a good idea for when I pull those out and put our bike rack in there. The interior was close to our normal tow weight minus dry groceries and clothing. Most all our camping gear is in there plus I loaded up two bicycles, threw in about 30 pounds of weight near the fridge to simulate a loaded fridge (beer weighs a lot!). Another thing new/not stock is I just pulled out the stock "mattresses" - ie pads - and put in a 6" memory foam mattress that the retailer says weighs 50 pounds.

I'm dying to get loaded weights but don't feel like pulling it out and going to the scale. However, I did realize that there is a grain elevator scale about 4 blocks from our house and camper and I hope to use it in the near future to get our weights. Our two previous weight checks have not been fully loaded.

Here is a picture of the scale set up. Let me know your opinions on if it is correct or not. One weird thing was, the first weight I took was with the camper tongue slightly higher than level and the weight was higher. That seemed odd to me, I would think it would have been slightly lighter.



And just for those interested in carrying bikes inside, here is a picture of  howour two mountain bikes, front wheels removed fit nicely. For a trip I will squeeze the front wheels in neater (and cleaner!) than this.:

[Pinstriper]

Don't you need to be level to take the tongue weight ? I'm guessing there's a little bit of downslope on that driveway and that it probably runs in the 90's on the stimpmeter.

[DavidM]

As I recall you have a single axle 16TBS, right? In that case being absolutely level doesn't make that much difference. Do the geometry and I'll bet 5 degrees off of level makes a few percent difference in tongue weight.

It makes a big difference if leveled or not in a twin axle trailer like mine as when one tire is unloaded, the support point moves forward or aft.

What is the weight rating of your coupler? If it is 500 lbs like mine you have a problem. I think I do see the forward bolt in the coupler which is good.

David

[mojospeople]

As I recall you have a single axle 16TBS, right? In that case being absolutely level doesn't make that much difference. Do the geometry and I'll bet 5 degrees off of level makes a few percent difference in tongue weight.

It makes a big difference if leveled or not in a twin axle trailer like mine as when one tire is unloaded, the support point moves forward or aft.

What is the weight rating of your coupler? If it is 500 lbs like mine you have a problem. I think I do see the forward bolt in the coupler which is good.

David

Correct - single axle. Coupler is rated for 2100 lbs TW. I'm good there!

[Merlin]

You did just what I did to weigh my tongue, so it must be the right way  That means the single axle TBS has the potential for a lot more weight on the tongue! Anyway, I don't see a problem with your method. Does the tongue have the reinforcing bolts sideways into the frame just behind the coupler? Can your TV take that kind of tongue weight? All in all, I'll bet that kind of tongue weight reduces sway a lot!

Finally, please don't transport firewood! That moves invasive species around that kill trees and messes up all the places all of us like to camp. If you need evidence, just go see photos of Tawas State Park in Michigan where the campground is now in an open field. It used to be in a gorgeous grove of big ash trees that were all killed by the emerald ash borer. Very sad, and it's happening many places to many species of trees in many campgrounds because campers move firewood full of invasives.

[gbpack]

Doesn't look like they (LL) put the side bolts in his coupler, like I believe they are doing now. With that kind of tongue weight, it would probably be a good idea to have that done so that the coupler doesn't end up getting bent upward from bumps occurred during travel (and especially if you use a WDH). See some of the old threads in the archives regarding how to accomplish this.

[mojospeople]

You did just what I did to weigh my tongue, so it must be the right way  That means the single axle TBS has the potential for a lot more weight on the tongue! Anyway, I don't see a problem with your method. Does the tongue have the reinforcing bolts sideways into the frame just behind the coupler? Can your TV take that kind of tongue weight? All in all, I'll bet that kind of tongue weight reduces sway a lot!

Finally, please don't transport firewood! That moves invasive species around that kill trees and messes up all the places all of us like to camp. If you need evidence, just go see photos of Tawas State Park in Michigan where the campground is now in an open field. It used to be in a gorgeous grove of big ash trees that were all killed by the emerald ash borer. Very sad, and it's happening many places to many species of trees in many campgrounds because campers move firewood full of invasives.

TV tongue weight - depends on who you believe but it is between 660 and 770 (long story re: VW labeling the Touaregs inconsistently). That is a big part of the reason I'm so determined to know our weights. Also, we will likely be adding any other weight behind the trailer axles which should help. I do remember reading about the coupler problems and thought I was safe but will review. I realize now that my previous LL had the side bolts but this one doesn't but they were totally different couplers.

No worries on firewood - it's the expensive, store-bought, treated, USDA certified stuff that I grabbed because it's usually dry enough to burn unlike all the wet stuff the parks sell us. EAB has devastated all our beautiful Ash trees around here too.

Found out today we can use our small town's grain elevator scale whenever I want to get weights which is so cool because it's only about 4 blocks away. And free! That will make it super convenient and more likely that we'll keep track of our weight at least until we get a feel for it.

[PYG RYDR]

Just checked my tongue.  14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[mojospeople]

Just checked my tongue.  14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.

We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.

[PYG RYDR]

Just checked my tongue.  14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.

We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.

Yes 2-5/16" and mine has 4 grade 8 bolts added too as seen in the photo.

[charliem]

Just checked my tongue.  14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.

We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.

Yes 2-5/16" and mine has 4 grade 8 bolts added too as seen in the photo.

Yes they have upgraded the coupler and that's good, but it is still an improper application of the coupler. The coupler is designed to be welded along the sides to a steel tongue. You can't weld steel to aluminum so side bolts should be added. Without them there is a tremendous bending moment at the forward two vertical bolts. It was my understanding the factory was installing the side bolts on new campers. The picture shows how I added 1/2" side bolts when I replaced the original light weight coupler several years ago.

[PYG RYDR]

Just checked my tongue.  14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.

We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.

Yes 2-5/16" and mine has 4 grade 8 bolts added too as seen in the photo.

Yes they have upgraded the coupler and that's good, but it is still an improper application of the coupler. The coupler is designed to be welded along the sides to a steel tongue. You can't weld steel to aluminum so side bolts should be added. Without them there is a tremendous bending moment at the forward two vertical bolts. It was my understanding the factory was installing the side bolts on new campers. The picture shows how I added 1/2" side bolts when I replaced the original light weight coupler several years ago.

Charlie,

Thanks for information!  I see you have a 21 ft camper.

I checked over on the LL site, and Dan indicated that LL will send out side bolts for the 21ft campers if requested.  I inquired about LL providing some for my 16TB.

Galen