Weight Discrepancy 13QBB

[tek610]

Hello friends-

I put a (refundable) hold deposit on a new 2016 13QBB. From everything I've read, this model has a dry weight of 2350 lbs, and a GVW of 3000.

On the stickers on this unit it claims a GVW of 4576 and a cargo limit of 1675 lbs, leaving a dry weight of almost 3000 lbs.

I understand that adding accessories and appliances can change actual weight from spec weight, but this is a big discrepancy.

Essentially for the 13QBB:

Research/literature = GVW of 3000

Sticker says DRY weight is 3000, GVW almost 5000.

What gives?

Thanks for your help. I'm hoping the sticker is incorrect. I chose the 13QBB for its weight rating, among other features.

Excited to finalize a deal and bring it home!

John

[charliem]

My guess is someone put the wrong sticker on your unit. I don't see how a 13QBB can weigh 3000#. The 4576 GVWR is more consistent with the single 4400# axle or the old dual axle 16xxx models. I would buy it contingent upon confirming a dry weight close to your expectations. You could also check the axle label. If it's higher than you expect and the dry weight is OK then you're better off. Nothing would surprise me in the transition from LL to Thor via KZ etc.

[tek610]

That is what I suspect as well. I will bring it up with dealer on Monday. I'm concerned that any taxes, fees that correlate with weight will be higher. I'm a first time buyer, trying to get my ducks in a row.

Thanks for your input!

Also curious if anyone knows where in the ownership transition my build falls. If the sticker is correct it says, August 2015. It has the aluminum, faux wood interior (not the real wood cabinet faces on the newer ones). How do I tell if it has the aluminum or TPO roof?

TIA for any help for a rookie noob like me!

[Merlin]

An August, 2015 build would almost certainly have the aluminum roof. As part of your pre-purchase inspection, you should be looking up on top anyway to make sure there is nothing amiss there. Then you can see for yourself.

Unfortunately, I have a rather low opinion of dealers and their sales and service staff. Unless you are familiar with the dealer and know they are ok, I would take what they say about the weight discrepancy with some careful concern. It would not surprise me to have them tell what you want to hear without checking into it themselves. You might ask if they have a way to weigh the camper in their facility. For liability reasons, I wonder if they would even replace an incorrect sticker without the factory involved. I agree with @charliem that it's unlikely a 13 would have those sticker ratings, but when you compare on-line information with the sticker, be sure you are using the same timeframe for the data (8/2015 on-line info with the 8/2015 sticker). There are a number of folks who have posted that various parameters for LL trailers are less than perfectly documented on their web site and discrepancies with axle ratings, stickers, and tongue weights. If all else fails, you could make the purchase contingent on taking the camper to a commercial scale and getting a certified weight empty. Then you would know for sure what's going on.

[Paul]

My 2015 13qbb built in 2014 not sure of the month have a sticker of 2350 with cargo limit of 650 and a GVW of 3000

[Chappy133]

Our 16 TBS came off the assembly line in January 2016. That might have been the last ones off the line with aluminum roofs.  The transition to TPO occurred right after that. 

[tek610]

An August, 2015 build would almost certainly have the aluminum roof. As part of your pre-purchase inspection, you should be looking up on top anyway to make sure there is nothing amiss there. Then you can see for yourself.

Unfortunately, I have a rather low opinion of dealers and their sales and service staff. Unless you are familiar with the dealer and know they are ok, I would take what they say about the weight discrepancy with some careful concern. It would not surprise me to have them tell what you want to hear without checking into it themselves.

Although this is my first (attempted) purchase, I've visited many dealerships- I concur with your feelings. I often know more about the product from internet research than the sales guy does.

This is at a Camping World location. It was another dealership that was acquired by CW just two months ago. This is one of the lot leftovers. It is exactly perfect for us and it's a great deal.

Maybe a call to LL with the VIN that's on the sticker. They should be able to decode it, right?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[Pinstriper]

1. LL in its various permutations has never done a good job of synching up their website specs with units produced. Oh hell, they've never even tried. They simply publish the latest...well not even that. They occasionally publish something that was "current" at some point in time. There is realistically no way to line that up with your unit.

2. The sticker is supposed to be accurate. In many places, by law. This is your best bet. Then as Merlin says take it to the scales, dry. Keep in mind the sticker is without the propane tanks or battery. If that more or less lines up with the scales, then just confirm the axle model and specs and the tire weight ratings. Whichever is lower is your upper limit.

3. In general, they have moved to heavier weights across the entire product line as they've added wood, rubber roofs, wood/composite floors. Simultaneously, they have moved to less capacity, either by reducing the number of axles or going with lower end axle hardware (yeah, yeah, I know they replaced the duals with a higher-rated single axle, but the overall is still lower and cheaper for them and I would expect they would also be looking to cheaper on the single axle units).

4. The difference between used car salesmen and RV salesmen is that the used car salesmen know when they're lying. Don't wear your "good" jewelry onto the lot.

5. Decode the VIN ? I doubt you'll get through.

[Silverfox]

I own a 2016 13QBB. Manufactured 03/15. Just checked my sticker, it says GVW 3000 lbs. Cargo 750 lbs. I love my 13QBB it has everything we need in a perfect size/weight for towing and stowing. They don't make them any more. The closest you can get is the 14' which is really about two feet bigger and heavier. Your trailer probably has the aluminum roof and floor and I think you mentioned aluminum/azdel cabinets (3 big pluses in my book).  In my opinion your trailer weight  must be mislabeled. You're lucky to have found it. Buy it! It's one of the good ones!

[Diversteve]

As trailer owners it is our responsibility to KNOW the weight of our rigs,
The only way to know is to go to a scale and weigh the rig.
The advise to weigh empty is sound, after loading for a trip weigh again.
Doing this will eliminate any questions about weights and capacities.
Be sure to maintain at least 10% of the trailers loaded weight on the tongue.
This will solve most sway issues.
Enjoy your new rig.
See ya on the road.

[tek610]

Well, we brought her home. Dealership experience was so-so. Learned some stuff from some knowledgeable techs, but I was disappointed when they were not prepared to install a brake controller in my Jeep. I had asked for one before we scheduled delivery and when we arrived to pick it up, I asked a few times and was given the run around about it each time. After our walk-through, while waiting for the finance guy, our concierge waltzed into the waiting room and proclaimed that "the trailer is light enough- the guys said you don't need a brake controller!" (They wanted this old heap off the lot- then and there. That much was apparent. I think they would have told me anything to get me outta there quickly.) Later, when a tech was showing me my hitch, right before leaving, he told me it's illegal in MN to tow a trailer that is equipped with electric brakes without a BC. A not-so-reassuring "you'll be fine," from him, and I was off for my first towing experience- actually MORE nervous than when I arrived. Even though the weight is well under my Jeep's tow weight limit, the old Cherokee's brakes are notoriously weak. They stop the Jeep just fine, and I keep it in TIP TOP shape, but the "guys" had no idea any of this when they made their assessment.

In the end, I pulled it home without a BC and my Jeep did very well. I allowed plenty of room, took back roads, took it easy and we got home safe, with nary a white-knuckle moment. In any case, before she leaves my driveway again, I'll have my BC installed. It arrives tomorrow.

I guess there's no big rush at this time- just brushed 4 inches of snow off the top!

Thanks for all the replies, and I definitely plan to weigh it, all configurations, GW, TW, etc. I'm a DIY guy and i like to know as much about my vehicles as possible. I'm sure I'll be referring to this forum more than ever now.

Excited to hit the road when this weather breaks...


John

[Pinstriper]

Well, we brought her home. Dealership experience was so-so. Learned some stuff from some knowledgeable techs, but I was disappointed when they were not prepared to install a brake controller in my Jeep. I had asked for one before we scheduled delivery and when we arrived to pick it up, I asked a few times and was given the run around about it each time. After our walk-through, while waiting for the finance guy, our concierge waltzed into the waiting room and proclaimed that "the trailer is light enough- the guys said you don't need a brake controller!" (They wanted this old heap off the lot- then and there. That much was apparent. I think they would have told me anything to get me outta there quickly.) Later, when a tech was showing me my hitch, right before leaving, he told me it's illegal in MN to tow a trailer that is equipped with electric brakes without a BC. A not-so-reassuring "you'll be fine," from him, and I was off for my first towing experience- actually MORE nervous than when I arrived. Even though the weight is well under my Jeep's tow weight limit, the old Cherokee's brakes are notoriously weak. They stop the Jeep just fine, and I keep it in TIP TOP shape, but the "guys" had no idea any of this when they made their assessment.

In the end, I pulled it home without a BC and my Jeep did very well. I allowed plenty of room, took back roads, took it easy and we got home safe, with nary a white-knuckle moment. In any case, before she leaves my driveway again, I'll have my BC installed. It arrives tomorrow.

I guess there's no big rush at this time- just brushed 4 inches of snow off the top!

Thanks for all the replies, and I definitely plan to weigh it, all configurations, GW, TW, etc. I'm a DIY guy and i like to know as much about my vehicles as possible. I'm sure I'll be referring to this forum more than ever now.

Excited to hit the road when this weather breaks...


John

Brace yourself - I'm about to tell you things that you won't be happy hearing - including that you've got it all wrong.

Nothing to be alarmed about - I do this all the time. Ask anyone.

1) So....you think they wanted to get the rig off the lot quickly. Wrong. They wanted your money and commitment before you could back out. And were willing to tell you ANYTHING to get you to do so, including - obviously from your own story - telling you something that was unsafe and illegal was "OK, you'll be fine".

2) You *really* shouldn't tow anything above about 1,000# without brakes. Laws and manufacturer recommendations vary a little one way or another, but that's a good rule to stick to. Often that means a brake controller, but it could also mean surge brakes (NOT to be confused with brakeaway brakes).

3) There is NO EXCUSE for an RV dealer to not be prepared to install a quality brake controller on any rig that shows up on their lot. NO EXCUSE. This is UNTHINKABLE.

4) The fact that they hemmed and hawed about all of the above is an open and shut case. These guys are no account, four-flushing, lying, pigeon gut sucking weasels of the first order. They should be horsewhipped, tarred and feathered, etc.

5) "The guys's assessment" was not of your trailer, or your tow vehicle, but of you, and what they had to do to get your signature and money without having to do, or admit that they were not competent to do, that which is required by law, common sense, human decency, and a desire to not be horsewhipped, tarred and feathered, etc.

In short, these guys were not the amicable morons you think they were. They were cold blooded, calculating, willing to let you leave their lot and end your existence in a fireball of roadside death while they drank the spoils of their fraud at the local watering hole.

Now, here are words of praise. You did very sensibly getting home the way you did. And you are a very sensible person to know not to take her on the road again until safe. Brake controllers are a lot like seat belts - you don't "need" them until you REALLY REALLY NEED them. You both minimized the risk, and got lucky. And you know better than to push your luck.

I applaud you, and the only thing you did wrong was give these bastages a free pass or benefit of doubt that they don't deserve.

[tek610]

Thanks for the kind words, Pinstriper. I always go into a big purchase like this ENTIRELY mistrustful of the dealership. I understand how business works. I realize I am essentially a statistic with a bank account! I absolutely knew it was shady to let me off the lot, but, truth be told, I was equally anxious to get her home so I could start doin' it MY WAY. By the end of the experience, I was sick of the BS and ready to go. If it had been more than a 40 mile trip, I might have been a tad more insistent.

As far as the weird weight discrepancy issue, I believe now that the sticker is correct. Turns out, we got a unique 13QBB. Contrary to the "typical 13QBB," ours has a Dexter 4400 lb axle and 15" wheels with E load tires. It has the aluminum roof, floor and cabinetry, but not the solid counter top. So, the capacity is FAR greater than a regular 13. Catalog specs list cargo max at 650, GVW 3000 (as Paul pointed out), but ours has a max of nearly 1700 lbs! GVW of 4675. What a huge difference. We will never even come close to carrying that much, in fact, we'll be carrying lass than the spec 650 lbs.

Of course it sits higher. I don't suspect it's the off road package, because they're street tires (not AT), and heck- that's quite a jump for a package upgrade. It has a double step entry.

Do you suppose since the 13QBB was ending its run around that time, and LL was switching the 16's from dual axle to single 4400, that maybe they just threw the last of these together with what they had? I know they moved HQ more than once around that time. Dunno if that had any effect. My sticker says built in Wakarusa.

Anyway- kinda cool to have such a unique trailer. I love it. Been tearing it apart to test everything and clean it up before the maiden voyage. I have a vacuum full of aluminum at this point!

Thanks again for everyone's input.

John

[charliem]

Do you suppose since the 13QBB was ending its run around that time, and LL was switching the 16's from dual axle to single 4400, that maybe they just threw the last of these together with what they had? I know they moved HQ more than once around that time. Dunno if that had any effect. My sticker says built in Wakarusa.

John

John,

It appears you do have a truly unique 13QBB. The concept of end of the run floor sweepings is generally bad but you seem to have really lucked out. The last of the Wakarusas! If nothing else you have the peace of mind that you will never overload the trailer. Enjoy your new toy and keep us informed of your adventures. Lots of folks here willing to help if you need it.

[Merlin]

What a heavy duty rig! You'll be able to take all the cement blocks you need for camping. 

And I think Pinstriper was way too easy on that dealer.