Sway / Weight distribution needed yes or no

[LivinLite AZ]

Hmmm! Try dropping the front end and see if that doesn't solve your sway problem.

Your Grand Cherokee is probably heavier than my 2013 Nissan Pathfinder which tows my dual axle 16TBS just fine. The 16TBS is at least 500 lbs heavier than yours and the tongue weight is right at 10%. The dual axle helps with sway though.

That is why I am thinking that your sway problem could be more related to how the GC is set up.

David

I'm going to test some F/R height variations tomorrow, before I actually mount the anti sway. I figure that I should get everything as stable as possible before adding it, so I'm not just masking an underlying issue.

Do you recommend 10% over say, 12% tongue weight? People say 10 - 15, so I was kind of shooting for the middle.

Will let you know...

Thanks David : )

I think you're on the right track to follow David's thoughts about the effect of the JGC set up. A lifted vehicle is inherently less stable and may make sway worse (especially with a short wheel base)? I would get the JGC as low as you can and still clear the BFG 33s, then get the appropriate drawbar to achieve a level trailer going down the road. Anything over 10% weight on the tongue should be fine, but a bit more may be better in your case (with the lift). Your statement about getting things as good as possible before adding sway control is right on. Do you have good shocks on the JGC? Anything you can do to make the tow vehicle more stable is good.

Hi Merlin.

Thanks for your response. I can deflate my air springs and come down 3" front and/or rear. This still leaves me with 3" lift over stock. I have trimmed the front bumper and adjusted my JKS control arms so the 33x10.5 BFGs don't rub when aired down unless I get near near full steering lock or heavily articulate the suspension. 2" wheel spacers help too.

Regarding shocks, I have adjustable Rancho RS 9000s. I usually leave them in their softest setting. But you lead me to wonder if firming up the rear shocks when towing might benefit stability. What say you? I can also play with toe and caster settings (it is a little castery at the moment), but I don't know how much influence this has on sway.

As far as the drawbar, I'm currently using a 5" drop but I have a 2" drop version laying around somewhere I think.

With my 13QBB loaded to 2900ish pounds, my tongue weight is about 320 (not sure how accurate this bathroom scale is though), so 11%. Would you recommend the I try to get that number up closer to 380 (13%) ? My factory specs for the 13QBB say "Hitch Weight 285 lb", which I am slightly over, but I read somewhere (can't find it now) that the max is like 360 lb. What is my ideal target? I can always redistribute weight inside the trailer, and can also store more heavy items in the Jeep. Or whatever helps even things out to be optimal.

Thanks again for the insight.

S

[LivinLite AZ]

Before you start drilling holes, Husky makes a clamp-on ball.

Flickr is down right now, but I'll bet if you search this site you can find images of mine, or just Google to find the Husky product.

Edited to add: see posts 13 & 15 in this thread.

Hi Eddie did you put something like rubber between the steel and aluminum clamp on? Is it necessary? I saw someone mentioning it

Hello Paul and Eddie

I had the Husky Centerline TS - no drilling required. But the rear bar brackets were way too tall for my 13QBB's 3" frame. There was 3" of daylight between the bottom of the frame and the top of the lower bracket bolt in its highest setting. Etrailer confirmed my concerns about crushing my frame if tightened to spec. They recommended the Pro Series 83660 Sway Control Bar instead, since I really only wanted to address sway, not WD.

My concern with drilling arose when I received the Pro Series 83660 and saw that it called for me to drill six 3/8" holes in the side of the frame to mount their bracket. Not going to do that, so I just ordered a compatible no drill bracket here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VASX0A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It will be here on Saturday and I'll let you know how that goes.

As far as isolating the dissimilar metals, rubber should work fine, but I opted for some 3" 5 mil PVC tape instead.

: ) S

[Merlin]

Any advice you get from me on the suspension set up is worth what it costs you, but here goes.....

The adjustable shocks give you an important variable to play with. I suggest you do try a setting other than the softest when towing. Perhaps those 9000s aren't controlling the extra weight well enough on soft.

Don't get too hung on small changes in tongue weight. That will change a lot anyway as you vary loads for different trips. Like sometimes you have water and sometimes you won't. Just be sure it's at least 10% and don't guess; get the rig weighed. Others on here have been surprised at the weights they are hauling around and some have exceeded the cargo capacity of their tow vehicle with surprisingly high tongue weights. For example, the advertised tongue weight on my camper is less than 300 lbs, but going down the road I'm well over 400 lbs and have been over 500 lbs in some situations.

If by "castery" on your JGC alignment you mean positive caster, that's probably a good thing. Alignment on a lifted vehicle is complex and definitely affects stability. I wouldn't go so far as to say you shouldn't tow with a lifted vehicle, but there will be consequences in stability. Toe can affect tracking and the wheel spacers have an affect on suspension geometry; they are not just for clearance.  I'm scared of offering any specific advice on alignment because of it's role in safety. I suggest you get a good alignment shop involved and get the JGC set up as close to OEM alignment specs as possible for starters and go from there.

3" over stock for the lift is a lot and you may even need more than the 5" inch drop drawbar to get the trailer level. If the trailer front is higher than the rear going down the road, it will be wiggly.

You'll get there! You just have an extra challenge by starting with a heavily modified JGC. That Jeep is at home on the rocks, but will need some TLC to be a good QBB tow vehicle.

And, as aside, Jeeps rock. My first vehicle was a '46 CJ2A.

[FastEddieB]

I used rubber sheeting in order to have something between the steel and the aluminum. I also cut down the mounting plate to allow a slightly longer travel for the sway control.

[LivinLite AZ]

I used rubber sheeting in order to have something between the steel and the aluminum. I also cut down the mounting plate to allow a slightly longer travel for the sway control.

Hi Eddie.

Your friction unit looks the same design as the one I got, except for the no drill bracket. Seems like the Pro Series is a Husky clone. When my Eaz-Lift 48385 Sway Control Adapter bracket arrives tomorrow I'll see how everything lines up and consider if the mounting plate could benefit from being cut down as you did. The description says it's intended for use on 3" frames and won't fit 4" frames, so hopefully it's already optimized for my application out of the box.

The Pro Series description said "Does Not Allow Backing Up". Is that stated because it would get damaged in a jack knife situation. Would I need to pull the pins and remove the whole bar, or just move the lever to the off position when maneuvering in reverse?

The more I think about it, I'm leaning towards your rubber sheet isolation method. Not only is it more robust than the PVC tape, but it should add a superior level of positional grip to the bracket, as some reviewers complained that their bracket moved out of position.

Thanks for the inspiration!

: ) S

[FastEddieB]

I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to no ill effect.  But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.

I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far. 

[LivinLite AZ]

I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to know ill effect.  But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.

I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.

Thanks for the valued hands on info. Are you pleased with its anti sway performance, and more importantly would you buy another one next time all things being equal?

[LivinLite AZ]

I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to know ill effect.  But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.

I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.

Thanks for the valued hands on info. Are you pleased with its anti sway performance, and more importantly would you buy another one next time all things being equal?

Hi FastEddie.

I have just test fit the new no drill friction sway control bracket. Fits perfect with my bicycle inner tube sourced rubber isolator (thanks for the inspiration). However, due to a 1" clearance issue with the propane tank tray as shown in my photos, I think I have three options:

1. Fill the old tray mounting screw holes with sealant and tap in the screws 1" further back (which leaves the propane tanks are nearly touching the battery box)

2. Cut a notch in the tank tray to accommodate the edge of the bracket and bolt (then paint the exposed cut metal to protect from rust)

3. Just move the the sway control mounting bracket forward 1" to avoid plans one and two above altogether. The instructions say 24" on center from coupler to sway control ball, but is reducing that to 23" (or even 22.5) going to cause problems? Not sure if this suggested measurement is in place to optimize anti sway effectiveness, or to protect the mechanism itself from bottoming out, in sharp turns for example.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

    : ) S

[LivinLite AZ]

I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to know ill effect.  But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.

I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.

Thanks for the valued hands on info. Are you pleased with its anti sway performance, and more importantly would you buy another one next time all things being equal?

Hi FastEddie.

I have just test fit the new no drill friction sway control bracket. Fits perfect with my bicycle inner tube sourced rubber isolator (thanks for the inspiration). However, due to a 1" clearance issue with the propane tank tray as shown in my photos, I think I have three options:

1. Fill the old tray mounting screw holes with sealant and tap in the screws 1" further back (which leaves the propane tanks are nearly touching the battery box)

2. Cut a notch in the tank tray to accommodate the edge of the bracket and bolt (then paint the exposed cut metal to protect from rust)

3. Just move the the sway control mounting bracket forward 1" to avoid plans one and two above altogether. The instructions say 24" on center from coupler to sway control ball, but is reducing that to 23" (or even 22.5) going to cause problems? Not sure if this suggested measurement is in place to optimize anti sway effectiveness, or to protect the mechanism itself from bottoming out, in sharp turns for example.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

    : ) S

OK. Talked to the manufacturer and was told that the 24" ball to ball measurement is in place to prevent bottoming/topping out, as I suspected. So I am going to move it forward and inch and visually inspect its functional envelope under normal turning circumstances (left and right turns around town). I will also promise myself to remember to disconnect the friction bar when making tight maneuvers or off roading. Luckily, removal and reattachment is childs play with this unit - just two QR pins hold it in place, only one of which actually needs to be disconnected when needed : )

[LivinLite AZ]

Any advice you get from me on the suspension set up is worth what it costs you, but here goes.....

The adjustable shocks give you an important variable to play with. I suggest you do try a setting other than the softest when towing. Perhaps those 9000s aren't controlling the extra weight well enough on soft.

Don't get too hung on small changes in tongue weight. That will change a lot anyway as you vary loads for different trips. Like sometimes you have water and sometimes you won't. Just be sure it's at least 10% and don't guess; get the rig weighed. Others on here have been surprised at the weights they are hauling around and some have exceeded the cargo capacity of their tow vehicle with surprisingly high tongue weights. For example, the advertised tongue weight on my camper is less than 300 lbs, but going down the road I'm well over 400 lbs and have been over 500 lbs in some situations.

If by "castery" on your JGC alignment you mean positive caster, that's probably a good thing. Alignment on a lifted vehicle is complex and definitely affects stability. I wouldn't go so far as to say you shouldn't tow with a lifted vehicle, but there will be consequences in stability. Toe can affect tracking and the wheel spacers have an affect on suspension geometry; they are not just for clearance.  I'm scared of offering any specific advice on alignment because of it's role in safety. I suggest you get a good alignment shop involved and get the JGC set up as close to OEM alignment specs as possible for starters and go from there.

3" over stock for the lift is a lot and you may even need more than the 5" inch drop drawbar to get the trailer level. If the trailer front is higher than the rear going down the road, it will be wiggly.

You'll get there! You just have an extra challenge by starting with a heavily modified JGC. That Jeep is at home on the rocks, but will need some TLC to be a good QBB tow vehicle.

And, as aside, Jeeps rock. My first vehicle was a '46 CJ2A.

Hey Merlin.

I'm happy to report that during our eight trip through Utah and Colorado, sway was never and issue (writeup here: https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=688.new#new ). With my front suspension lowered by just about 2" and the installation of our Reese Friction Sway Control bar, we tracked straight and true. We had plenty of opportunities to prove its worth.

Headwinds and side winds were fierce on one particular leg approaching and leaving Moab, with gusts up to at least 60mph in driving rain. We were giddy at the immediate effect that these frontal wind blasts inflicted (sometimes losing 10mph in an instant going uphill), but pleasantly astonished at the rock steady performance of our Reese Friction Sway Control bar through the intense side gusts. With this device, passing or being passed by semis was a non issue.

I did try a leg with the rear RS9000 shock valves firmed up to 3 out of 10, but the ride suffered noticeably and I went back to the softest setting for the duration. I am so glad that neither of the full bore WDH/anti sway solutions I purchased (Husky Centerline, and Eaz-Lift 48058) were compatible with my tiny 3" frame rails. Otherwise I would have been saddled with 100lb of unnecessary WD hitch and lost a ton of ground clearance as well. I can't say enough about the Reese Friction Sway Control. Light weight, compact, and 100% effective!

: ) S