Can I put batteries indoors on wheel wells?

[RV Squirrel]

I've recently purchased two lithium batteries to replace the lead-acid battery that was outdoors, on the frame just behind the LP tanks.  I plan to mount the new batteries inside my Camplite 14DBS.  Each battery weighs around 30 pounds... so two would weigh 60 pounds.  It's okay to put lithium batteries indoors... in fact, it seems that most folks do for a number of reasons.

There isn't much space to do this, so my options are limited.  I'm thinking of mounting them on top of the passenger-side wheel well.  This would be behind the lowest of the two cabinet doors underneath the sink.  I've attached a picture.

The batteries fit there (assuming that I can secure them somehow), but I'm concerned about the weight.  Even though lithium batteries are much lighter than lead-acid, 60 pounds is still significant.  I've had problems with leaking on the driver's side (which I've sealed, based on recommendations from this forum), but I don't want to invite trouble on the passenger's side.

What I see on top of the wheel well appears to be thin sheet metal that is folded at an angle to cover the top and side of the wheel well.  However, I do not see any sheet metal screws connecting it to something underneath.  What is underneath this sheet metal?  Can I screw into it in order to attach mounting hardware for the batteries?  If not, can I use square tube stock to create a battery tray that would connect to the existing 1" square tube stock on either side of the cabinet?  As you can see from the picture, it's going to be snug!  The batteries are hard to see because they are the same color as the sheet metal. 

It would be a bummer to give up the floor of the cabinet though.  The dogs wouldn't forgive me... that's where we store the kibble.

[Merlin]

@Pinstriper used to have a 14dbs and he may be familiar with that spot. I'll ping him with this post and see what he knows.

[GrampaKilt]

RVSQ, here is a frame view from an early 16' CL vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZtOIbisE4M It's not a structural component in the 14's either. It is as you say, and needs 'beefing' up for batteries. I'm a wood guy, not a metal guy, so if I was doing this mod, I would use 1/2" baltic birch and construct a platform that rests on the wheel well (raising the height available by only...1/2" and also making possible a larger platform than the dimensions of the wheel well surface). Support the platform medially with another piece of birch down to the floor. Then against the wall, secure the platform to any tube stock there with a plywood ledger strip, or use a piece of at least 1x1 aluminum angle screwed to the tube stock for the ply to rest on (my choice) or a series of corner braces that do the same thing as the alum angle. The nice thing about ply is that it's an easy surface to secure your batteries. Finally, I use a construction adhesive (PL Premium) when screwing 'structural' items to trailer surfaces.

Your idea is very innovative. Best wishes. PM me if more detail is needed for 'ply' idea. GK

[Merlin]

RVSQ, here is a frame view from an early 16' CL vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZtOIbisE4M It's not a structural component in the 14's either. It is as you say, and needs 'beefing' up for batteries. I'm a wood guy, not a metal guy, so if I was doing this mod, I would use 1/2" baltic birch and construct a platform that rests on the wheel well (raising the height available by only...1/2" and also making possible a larger platform than the dimensions of the wheel well surface). Support the platform medially with another piece of birch down to the floor. Then against the wall, secure the platform to any tube stock there with a plywood ledger strip, or use a piece of at least 1x1 aluminum angle screwed to the tube stock for the ply to rest on (my choice) or a series of corner braces that do the same thing as the alum angle. The nice thing about ply is that it's an easy surface to secure your batteries. Finally, I use a construction adhesive (PL Premium) when screwing 'structural' items to trailer surfaces.

Your idea is very innovative. Best wishes. PM me if more detail is needed for 'ply' idea. GK

Good ideas except for the Baltic birch. It's sourced from Russia and few places have any left. Last I checked, a sheet was well over $200.

[RV Squirrel]

Before I saw this response, I measured the "height" of the wheel well inside and outside the trailer.  I used the top surface of the aluminum floor as a reference, because I could see it outside in the wheel well.  Outside the trailer, the height of the wheel well was around 3 13/16".  Inside the trailer, the height was around 5 1/16".  This meant that there was a difference of around 1 1/4", which would be enough for 1" tube stock plus a couple of thicknesses of sheet metal. 

To confirm this, I removed the paneling (Adzel?) from the end of the counter that straddled the wheel well.  I've attached pictures of what I found.  The white square in the picture is the sheet metal at the end of the wheel well.  Above this is 1" tube stock.  Above that is another layer of sheet metal (slightly bent in the picture).  There are three tubes that run the length of the wheel well... two on top (front and back) and one on the bottom (front only).  There are cross members at either end.  By knocking around with my knuckle, I has able to determine that there are two cross members toward the center of the wheel well (every 18 inches or so) that connect the front tube stock and the back tube stock.

This means that there is structural support which does not seem to appear in the video.  The good news is that there is aluminum tube stock running the length of the wheel well on top, both in front and in back.  However, since the cross pieces are only every 18", then it is possible that a heavy battery could still deform the sheet metal on top.

I agree that it will be necessary to put more support there.  Although I do like woodworking, I don't like to have wood inside the CampLite.  So I will try to make something that you described, but it will look more like a battery tray made out of aluminum angle stock.  I don't weld (especially not aluminum), so the tray will probably be held together with machine screws/bolts, and held into place with self-tapping sheet metal screws.  I'll attach it at either end, as you described.  In the center, the weight should be supported by the tubular bar stock that runs the length of the wheel well. If I get confident enough, I may attach it there as well. 

It will probably take a while to get all this together... I still have to purchase and mount the solar controller, DC-DC charge controller, fuses et al.  It turns out that lithium batteries can require additional hardware here and there.  Once I have everything together (probably in three weeks or so) I plan to post a picture.  I'll probably be looking at other posts on this forum to get an idea about equipment (e.g., Renogy vs Victron).

Thanks for the help!

Grrr... The first picture is upside-down and the second one is rotated 90 degrees.  I don't see a "rotate" option.

[Pinstriper]

I no longer have the 14DBS so I can't check. The only thing I remember about the wheel wells is that they were not well sealed - road spray during a heavy rain could and would get inside from the wheel well seams.

I agree with the idea of constructing a supporting frame with aluminum stock instead of wood. This might be an excellent excuse to play with the aluminum "welding" ie. brazing/soldering rods from HFT and then mounted with self tapping screws.

Moving the batteries off the tongue directly over the axles would reduce the tongue weight measurable. Whether this would be desirable or undesirable would depend on what the current tongue weight and balance is.

Given the small volume of storage space in the 14DBS, in particular under the counters, I do have to wonder if this is the best use of the . I would be interested in knowing why the batteries can't live outside where their predecessors did.

[RV Squirrel]

Lithium batteries have a number of pluses over lead-acid and AGM batteries.  However, there are two strikes against Lithium batteries that I will try to address by moving them indoors:
1) Lithium batteries do not like to be charged in freezing temperatures.  They can be damaged.  At the least, you'll likely void the warranty.  Folks get around this by moving them indoors.
2) Lithium batteries can cost a pretty penny.  Having them indoors makes them a little more protected. 

Having them on the wheel well actually is good use of the space.  It's hard to get to, so I didn't really keep anything useful there.  If I can put batteries there, then that would be a good use of space.  The floor of the cabinet in front of the wheel well is an entirely different matter.  I'm hoping to keep this space for dog kibble.

I thought about the tongue weight.  Yes... this could be disrupted by moving the batteries indoors.  However, I may be able to use this space for storing other items (like a collapsible ladder for adjusting solar panels).

I've had problems with leaking wheel wells on the driver's side.  I've since fixed them and am ready to make the same fixes on the driver's side if need be.

I have an old welder (from a garage sale), and am aware that HFT sells welding rods.  I didn't know that these could be used for aluminum.  But yes... it would be fun project, assuming that I could use the old welder.

[Pinstriper]

The aluminum "welding" rods are actually brazing rods, used with MAPP gas torch. If you can solder, you can use them.

[GrampaKilt]

Looking forward to seeing pics of your mod. Who knows, I may do the same some day. 2 FWIWs...I installed a quartz countertop and was concerned about the extra weight concentrated on that side of the TT. It mattered not one whit. #2...after dissing solar as not worth the investment in cooler, cloudy climates, I recently purchased a 100W Renogy Solar suitcase. Hoping its not a slippery slope towards more solar purchases! GK

[RV Squirrel]

It took some time, but I finally finished and installed the battery tray.  It was a fun adventure.  Thanks to Pinstriper for the advice about brazing rods.  I used "Alumiweld" rods from HF, which must be the only product that they sell that is made in the US.  I had a number of unsuccessful attempts, until I had better luck with 1) MAPP gas (instead of propane), 2) a new torch attachment suitable for MAPP gas (TS8000), and 3) using lap joints (where the ends overlap) instead of but joints (where the ends abut).  It also helps to have a real aluminum cutting blade (I bought a Diablo D1296L, for my 12" compound mitre saw), which actually cuts instead of bending the metal away into a glob that to have to file away later.  The tray below was made from 1.5 inch aluminum angle stock.



This is what it looks like installed.


And this is what it looks like with the the batteries installed.  Yes, I do plan to cut the straps!  The batteries haven't been connected in this photo, but I did connect them today.

I used the same approach to make a tray to hold a deck-mounted AC to DC charger, which sits on the same wheel well.  Here is a picture (without the charger mounted).


Thanks again to Pinstriper for the recommendation to use aluminum brazing rods.  Thanks also to Merlin for the idea of supporting the tray medially, I think I managed to do this by putting the front piece upside-down.  Hopefully this will work!  It certainly helped when I slide those "light" 30 lb lithium batteries into place!
 

[Merlin]

Nice welding! And great tray setup. Lots of battery power there!

[RV Squirrel]

Thanks.  I wouldn't have tried it had not I been given the idea on this forum.  I now think that working with simple aluminum products is another way to approach problems.  Hats off to those that do real welding.  I'm glad that I was able to get this done without hurting myself.  Okay... one time I did hurt myself a little bit, but that made me wiser afterwards.

Also, after eight years of owning the trailer, I now think that it is okay to drill holes in it (at least in some places)!

[Pinstriper]

Nice build !

[GrampaKilt]

Very nice idea and build. You have almost convinced me to tackle uncomplicated aluminum welding. GK