I just ordered 2 VMAXTANKS 225ah 6V AGM batteries for my 2018 21BHS, and I'm about to order a battery charger as well. The onboard WFCO 8735 converter/charger is below specs for properly charging these batteries. Batteries will be on the trailer tongue and connected to the existing 8awg wire currently installed by the factory. In addition, I will be running some 4awg welding wire under the trailer straight to the charger located about 14' away in the compartment under the bunk. Problem is that all my circuit breakers in my WFCO are being used, so I'm guessing I will have to wire in a sub panel, new breaker, and AC receptacle to power the charger? I'm assuming people have done this with inverters? Looking for solutions or ideas on how others have done this. Also looking for recommendations on parts to order(sub panel. breaker. romex size?). Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
This setup is a temporary battery capacity upgrade for this season, until I have a full solar system installed next year. At that time I will probably be having the charger replaced with an inverter/charger along with the rest of the system. For now, this is the charger I will be using...
COTEK CX1250 12 VOLT 50 AMP 4 STAGE 3 BANK AUTOMATIC BATTERY CHARGER / POWER SUPPLY
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F9DSQAO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=AWPBFTW0ZXVPR&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F9DSQAO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=AWPBFTW0ZXVPR&psc=1)
I think you are going off the deep end here. The existing WFCO converter won't harm your new AGM batteries. The charging profile might not be exactly what the AGM battery manufacturer recommends but it is probably close enough. Do you know the numbers of what the manufacturer specifies and what the WFCO puts out?
If you must install this new charger, then use one of the 120V breakers that supplies the house outlets to power your new charger. The new charger probably draws a max of 7-8 amps AC so you need to keep whatever you plug into the house outlets less than 7 amps to keep from tripping that circuit breaker.
Use 14 gauge romex to wire your new charger up, assuming it is on a 15A breaker.
David
Thanks for the reply David, and I think you're right about the WFCO "possibly" being good enough. The WFCO is a 30 amp charger, and the batteries recommend 30-110a at 14.4 to 14.7 charging voltage, with float at 13.2-13.8v. I've never seen my WFCO go above 13.7v. There's also a 15' run of 8awg wire to the batteries on the tongue that's probably contributing to a lot of voltage loss.
I guess my biggest concern was having to run my generator forever to recharge the batteries with the WFCO, and not soo much on hurting the batteries. After looking into all this though, I think I might just give the WFCO a try for now and hold off on ordering the charger. Thanks again for the input!
If the 110 volt breakers are single circuit breakers, you can replace them with split breakers to add additional circuits. It won't increase the total amp rating for the panel, but it can provide the additional circuit.
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Quote from: Steve Sanders on May 05, 2018, 06:30:05 PM
If the 110 volt breakers are single circuit breakers, you can replace them with split breakers to add additional circuits. It won't increase the total amp rating for the panel, but it can provide the additional circuit.
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Thought about that but I don't see any more room in the panel to add one.. I guess if the WFCO turns out to be under par, Ill run some romex to the existing outlet breaker labelled as "Gen" as DavidM suggested and just keep it simple.
Quote from: garymcclellan on May 05, 2018, 06:22:42 PM
I guess my biggest concern was having to run my generator forever to recharge the batteries with the WFCO, and not soo much on hurting the batteries. After looking into all this though, I think I might just give the WFCO a try for now and hold off on ordering the charger. Thanks again for the input!
Ahh, I see! You may be right. RV converters don't seem to charge as fast for their amperage rating as others like marine chargers. You might also look at IOTA chargers. This 55A one should work and is only $206- https://www.amazon.com/DLS-55-AUTOMATIC-BATTERY-CHARGER-SUPPLY/dp/B0074JVO0A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525559795&sr=8-1&keywords=iota+55
You could go a little bigger with AGM batteries. Conventional wisdom is to limit FLA chargers to 25% of the amp hour rating, but I think you can go a little bigger with AGMs, probably 33% or 75A. Here is a 75A IOTA- https://www.amazon.com/DLS-75-AUTOMATIC-BATTERY-CHARGER-SUPPLY/dp/B0074JVO8C/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525560011&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=iota+75+amp+charger
But what generator are you using. A Honda EU2000 will work with the 75A IOTA, but a Honda EU1000 won't.
I see the fifth AC breaker position is labeled "Gen". It will power an auxiliary charger just fine. But never connect an external power source to that breaker like an inverter or a generator. If the shore power cord is connected it will fry the generator or inverter and if the shore power cord is not connected it will fry you because the terminals will be hot.
David
Quote from: DavidM on May 05, 2018, 07:48:33 PM
QuoteBut what generator are you using. A Honda EU2000 will work with the 75A IOTA, but a Honda EU1000 won't.
I have one of the new Honda EU2200I gens that I'll be using. It's pretty good, and can run my AC on eco mode with a Micro-air EasyStart kit that I installed.
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I see the fifth AC breaker position is labeled "Gen". It will power an auxiliary charger just fine. But never connect an external power source to that breaker like an inverter or a generator.
There's another issue with this "General" breaker. Not only does it power all my AC outlets, but it also powers the charging portion of my WFCO converter. I would like to seperate the 2, so i can disable the WFCO charger (while using a better charger), and not lose all my outlets at the same time. I was thinking of moving the AC outlets to join the microwave breaker since i hardly use the microwave. thoughts?
The IOTA charger you linked looks great, but someone in the amazon review section said this...
"Be aware that this bad boy pulls 18 amps. A lot of installed breakers are 15 amps.
Does not play well with GFCI outlets typically found on boats. We had to install non-GFCI just for this charger."
Only 20 amp breaker I have is for the Air conditioner. So I would be back to the circuit breaker dilemma again.. LOL
Quote from: garymcclellan on May 05, 2018, 06:48:16 PM
Quote from: Steve Sanders on May 05, 2018, 06:30:05 PM
If the 110 volt breakers are single circuit breakers, you can replace them with split breakers to add additional circuits. It won't increase the total amp rating for the panel, but it can provide the additional circuit.
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Thought about that but I don't see any more room in the panel to add one.. I guess if the WFCO turns out to be under par, Ill run some romex to the existing outlet breaker labelled as "Gen" as DavidM suggested and just keep it simple.
All double breakers already. No options there...
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QuoteAll double breakers already. No options there...
Yea I think I may be back to the idea of installing a sub panel with a 20 amp breaker to power the aux charger. I would just have to wire the sub panel to the main 30 amp breaker on the WFCO distribution panel right?
I hope that all your AC outlets are not on the same CB as the converter in your power control center. Double check that. The AC outlets should be on the CB labeled GFCI and the power control center should use a separate 15A AC breaker to feed the DC converter. I have no faith in the labels LL put on the panel, so double check everything!
Where is the refrigerator breaker for its operation on AC?
Before you double up on AC circuits (such as moving all the outlets to the microwave CB), you may want to reconsider the plan. I like the idea of just using the existing converter output to charge the 2 new batteries for this season, then doing it all new with an inverter/charger when you install solar next year. You won't hurt the batteries in just one camping season and next year you'll be able to get things just right with a new CB panel and wiring. This summer, just gas up the Honda and charge away!
You are correct. The IOTA 75A charger pulls 18A max and that is too much for the 15A breaker. So back to the 55A IOTA which pulls 13A. Wiring it to the microwave breaker will work as long as you don't use both at the same time.
But Merlin is right. Use the WFCO for the season. It won't hurt your batteries. It may take a little longer to charge up the batteries though.
David
Quote from: Merlin on May 05, 2018, 09:09:54 PM
I hope that all your AC outlets are not on the same CB as the converter in your power control center. Double check that. The AC outlets should be on the CB labeled GFCI and the power control center should use a separate 15A AC breaker to feed the DC converter. I have no faith in the labels LL put on the panel, so double check everything!
I just went out and re-verified and Yes all 4 of my AC outlets are on the same 15a breaker that the charger is on labelled "Gen". When I turn it off, my DC voltage dropped from 13.2v down to 12.6, and I lose all power on the AC outlets.. Turning it back on brought the voltage back up to 13.7v
From what I could tell, The GFCI breaker only controls the GFCI alone. I'm assuming they connected the AC outlets to the wrong breaker? It wouldn't surprise me as I've already found my back up camera "pre-wired" bracket wiring to be backwards, along with my black flush tank check valve to be installed backwards too. This is on a 2018 21BHS.
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Where is the refrigerator breaker for its operation on AC?
It's a 2 way dometic, that runs on propane or 12v. No breaker for it.
The IOTA 75A charger pulls 18A max!
75*12=900 watts. 900 watts /120 VAC =7.5 amps.
That is one horribly inefficient charger!
Your existing charger will not fully charge the batteries but you will probably be OK until you complete the project with solar.
jmho.
[I would just have to wire the sub panel to the main 30 amp breaker on the WFCO distribution panel right?
/quote]
I don't think so. The 30 amp breaker is typically acting as the (reverse fed) main breaker for the system. The black wire from the shore power cable is probably connected to that breaker.
I would replace that double breaker with a double 30 amp breaker. Feed the subpanel from the right side of the double 30, and move the circuit that's currently on the other side of that split breaker to the subpanel.
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It's odd you've seen the WFCO in your camper at a max of 13.7V. That unit has a 3 stage charger with a bulk charge voltage of 14.4.
I can't safely advise you on which circuits should be on each breaker in your WFCO power center without being there in person. I have a Progressive Dynamics power center with the AC outlets and the DC converter on separate CBs in my camper, so I can't send photos that would help.
Perhaps someone else with a WFCO power center will read this and chime in with how theirs is wired.
AC wiring in a camper should not be "guessed". It's a huge safety issue. I'll go back to my earlier post to leave things status quo until next year and your complete redo.
In the meantime, enjoy those 2 big batteries! That's a nice upgrade!
Quote from: Merlin on May 06, 2018, 09:33:18 AM
It's odd you've seen the WFCO in your camper at a max of 13.7V. That unit has a 3 stage charger with a bulk charge voltage of 14.4.
From the research I've done, this charger will only go into bulk mode when the battery is less than 50% and it will only stay in that mode for a short period of time. A lot of WFCO owners upgrade to a Progressive Dynamic charger because of this. The new PD chargers can be manually forced into boost mode for fast charging off a generator. I've never had my battery that low which is why I haven't seen it go into bulk mode. The trailer is only a couple months old.
The Cotek CX1250 was recommended to me as a temp charger by a professional solar installer(Brian Boone) who will be doing my solar install next summer.
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I can't safely advise you on which circuits should be on each breaker in your WFCO power center without being there in person. I have a Progressive Dynamics power center with the AC outlets and the DC converter on separate CBs in my camper, so I can't send photos that would help.
Totally understood. I've ordered a Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor with Built-In Bluetooth so I can accurately monitor my batteries and charger. My latest plan if the WFCO fails to fully charge my new batteries, is to just disconnect the charging portion of it at the "General" breaker, and power the Cotek charger through that breaker instead. That would save me from having to install a sub panel. If the breaker trips easily with use of the AC outlets at the same time, then I think I will move the power to the outlets over to the GFI breaker. I'll have to do more research on that before doing it though. I appreciate all the suggestions! This is turning out to be a real brain buster for something that should be relatively simple to do.
I've installed WFCO power centers in both of my Quicksilver campers. The directions call for the 30 amp side of the 30/15 split breaker that comes in the first position to be connected to the hot (black) wire in the shore power connection cable to function as a main breaker. This misuses the breaker by "backfeeding" current through it. Backfeeding probably violates most residential electrical codes, but it is common in this application and isn't really dangerous. After all, there is another 30 Amp breaker in the shore power connection box.
The 12 converter is typically powered from the far right breaker, but often has a wire that allows another circuit to be connected to that breaker as well. I don't like that arrangement because it's really just a fancy "double tap" connection that is not the best idea.
If you replace the first 30/15 breaker with a 30/30 breaker and use the left side as the main and the right side to power a subpanel, the bus bar in the WFCO will be protected from the subpanel's current draw. The current going to the subpanel can use just the breakers circuit, that's designed for up to 60 Amps. The full 30 Amps that the shore power cable and supply can supply will be available to both panels, but still limited to a total of 30 Amps.
You will have to move one circuit from the WFCO to the new subpanel, but that can't be avoided.
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That sounds like a lot of work just to install an AC outlet for my charger. I really want to just disconnect the wfco charger from the gen breaker and connect the new charger to that breaker instead.
Ok... I see the circuit labeled "gen" in the picture, but I don't understand. Is that providing power to something related to the generator, or is that a back-fed main breaker for feeding generator supplied power to the panel?
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Quote from: Steve Sanders on May 07, 2018, 07:14:58 AM
Ok... I see the circuit labeled "gen" in the picture, but I don't understand. Is that providing power to something related to the generator, or is that a back-fed main breaker for feeding generator supplied power to the panel?
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See reply #5 from DavidM above on the critical safety issue of never connecting a generator directly to the power control center. That "gen" CB is not related to a generator. Garymcclellan described i's use in reply #12. Generators should only be connected to the shorepower input.
"Gen" is short for "general" not to be confused with "generator". I had to do some research on that myself.
My 15amp "General" breaker is currently powering 4 AC outlets, as well as the charging portion of my WFCO converter/charger.
On another note, I've gone ahead and ordered the Cotek charger recommended to me, along with 25' of 4awg wire, split loom, clamps, and a victron VMB-712 battery monitor and shunt.
The reason I've decided to go this route is because I have multiple 2 week boondocking trips planned up in the mountains in WA state from Sep-Dec that are very important trips with alot invested in them. I don't want to risk being stuck up there with a charger that can't keep up with my batteries. This Cotek charger will also be better for the batteries in the long run due to its dedicated "AGM" modes of operation. From the research I've done, I have very little faith in my WFCO 30 amp charger.
Thank you all for the inputs and I'll post pics as this project moves forward!
So you plan to keep your batteries charged while boondocking by powering your new charger from a Honda 2200 genset, right?
Another way is to connect your batteries to your TV's battery with jumper cables and run it for an hour or so at idle.
The direct heavy connection results in a much lower voltage drop than the long 10 gauge or so connector wiring to the TV. You probably will get 30 amps or so with the direct connection vs 10-15 with the connector. Heck do them both at the same time. The lower the voltage drop, the faster the battery will charge.
David
Quote from: DavidM on May 07, 2018, 05:18:11 PM
So you plan to keep your batteries charged while boondocking by powering your new charger from a Honda 2200 genset, right?
Yes, and hopefully not have to run more than a couple hours a day.
Quote
Another way is to connect your batteries to your TV's battery with jumper cables and run it for an hour or so at idle.
The direct heavy connection results in a much lower voltage drop than the long 10 gauge or so connector wiring to the TV. You probably will get 30 amps or so with the direct connection vs 10-15 with the connector. Heck do them both at the same time. The lower the voltage drop, the faster the battery will charge.
David
Good idea as a backup plan! Thanks David
Install is complete and I am more than happy with the results.
I ended up just wiring in an AC speedbox receptacle with #12 romex straight to the General breaker (where the other outlets are hooked up to), to power the new Cotek charger.
There was no need for me to disable the WFCO charger as it plays nice with the new charger. The WFCO just stops charging when the new charger is powered on.
The Cotek was able to charge my batteries from 70% all the way to 100% in less than 3 hours with a max voltage of 14.7(which I recently lowered to 14.4 because the fridge check light was coming on), and a max amperage of 50a. During my testing, the WFCO alone would not put out more than 15a, which is far below the rated charging current for these batteries. The website for the batteries actually has a warning about charging with less than 30-110a, so I am glad I got the Cotek charger!
Batteries were connected in series with 2/0 wire and connected to charger with #4. Grounds from shunt and charger were ran with #4 as well. Added a new battery disconnect, 300a terminal fuse, and 80a resettable fuse for Cotek, Victron battery monitor with bluetooth and iphone app, and I also installed my progressive industries EMS-HW30C hardwired surge protector since i had the distribution panel removed.
No issues so far, here are some pics of the install under the bunk of the 2018 21BHS...
Glad you got it working well with the new charger. Some observations/suggestions:
1. The new charger charges at 50A when the battery is 70% full and will charge fully in three hours. As I recall you have two 6V GC batteries of about 225 AH. That means that the charge rate must drop as it gets beyond 70%, which is not surprising. It takes a long time to charge FLA batteries the last 15%.
2. The WFCO charger just stops charging when the new charger is on. Again not surprising. The WFCO charger hits its maximum acceptance voltage and it switches to float which is well below what the new charger is putting out, so its charging rate goes to zero.
3. How many amps AC does your new charger draw when it is charging at 50A? If it is less than 13A then you can use a Honda EU2000i generator to power it by hooking up the shore power cord through and adapter to the generator.
4. Looks like there is plenty of room for another pair of GC batteries. That is the next thing I would do. It will extend your boondocking time significantly and might mean you don't have to worry about a generator. Monitor your DC useage with the Victron and make sure you keep the batteries at 50% or greater for best life.
David
Quote from: DavidM on May 24, 2018, 05:36:56 PM
Glad you got it working well with the new charger. Some observations/suggestions:
1. The new charger charges at 50A when the battery is 70% full and will charge fully in three hours. As I recall you have two 6V GC batteries of about 225 AH. That means that the charge rate must drop as it gets beyond 70%, which is not surprising. It takes a long time to charge FLA batteries the last 15%.
Yea, It started dropping from 50 amps at about the 85% point.
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2. The WFCO charger just stops charging when the new charger is on. Again not surprising. The WFCO charger hits its maximum acceptance voltage and it switches to float which is well below what the new charger is putting out, so its charging rate goes to zero.
Yes, and I verified by disconnecting the WFCO charger while both chargers were running, and the voltage and current remained exactly the same.
Quote
3. How many amps AC does your new charger draw when it is charging at 50A? If it is less than 13A then you can use a Honda EU2000i generator to power it by hooking up the shore power cord through and adapter to the generator.
I forgot to plug in my kilowatt meter before the test, but the Cotek charger came with a 15a power cord. I also have the new EU"2200"i honda that puts out a little more than the 2000's (120V 2200W max. (18.3A), 1800W rated (15A), so im thinking it should be good. True test will be on my trip this weekend :)
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4. Looks like there is plenty of room for another pair of GC batteries. That is the next thing I would do. It will extend your boondocking time significantly and might mean you don't have to worry about a generator. Monitor your DC useage with the Victron and make sure you keep the batteries at 50% or greater for best life.
I was thinking the same thing! although I had a hard time running down these 2 batteries for the test. It took 3 days of running all my DC loads around the clock to get them down to 70%. All lights, fans, etc.. everything minus the furnace as I didn't want to waste propane :) These batteries are very impressive, even with just 2 of them. I appreciate all the suggestions David! Thanks
"I was thinking the same thing! although I had a hard time running down these 2 batteries for the test. It took 3 days of running all my DC loads around the clock to get them down to 70%. All lights, fans, etc.. everything minus the furnace as I didn't want to waste propane :) These batteries are very impressive, even with just 2 of them. I appreciate all the suggestions David! Thanks"
That means you use 10% of 225 AH each day or 23 amp hours a day. That is more than minimal (I use 10-12) but not terribly high. That means with 4 GC batteries you could go 10 days without getting below 50%. Then why worry about a bigger charger and a generator? Do you camp for more than ten days at a time without shore power?
David
That was just driveway testing with everything running 24/7. I would use way less than that normally. But yea, I'll be out boondocking the entire month of September, and a few other 2 week long trips Oct-Dec. I already have the generator so I may as well use it. I'm also considering getting a portable solar suitcase kit to help out. Problem is that it's very cloudy/rainy up here in WA state at that time of year, hence the need for the generator.
I totally agree with you that 4 of these batteries would be way better, but i'm also a little skeptical about adding more weight to the rear of the trailer. these bad boys are 70+ lbs a piece.
Well, there is something else you can do that doesn't require running your generator. It takes some wiring skill and electrical sense, but you seem to have both. You almost certainly will drive places while you spend 30 days in one campground. So charge your batteries while you drive.
Make up a short cord with alligator clips on one end and a male round trailer plug on the other. Then take two of your 6V batteries with you in the bed of the truck. Hook up the cable. Then the batteries will get charged while you drive. Then the next longish trip do the same with the other pair (or not if you stick with two).
The trailer connector will charge the batteries at 15-20 amps while driving.
David
Good idea David! I verified with my kilowatt meter that the new Cotek charger only draws 6.83a when charging at its max 50a. That's pretty darn efficient if you ask me! I was able to run all kinds of other stuff at the same as the charger with my single honda 2200i generator in eco mode.
I'm still planning on adding 2 more batteries after i get this plumbing fiasco squared away. Still waiting on parts to get delivered.
I've been avoiding battery and battery charging discussions like the plague. However, I suspect it's an area of knowledge that is unavoidable if I want to improve my 14DB.
According to electrical inspectors, I do excellent work as a non-professional doing my own house wiring, the realm of AC. I learned basic VDC as a child, but am I ever being schooled in the battery world! It will take some background study to fully understand the issues being addressed in this thread.
Naïve I was entering the RV world, especially the TT side. I was shocked by the dogma surrounding TVs, especially on this side of the pond. Once almost beyond criticism, my current thinking is that LL, pre-Thor no less, could've done much better. And what about absorption fridges that don't work well in hot weather? Duh! Now I find out that LL (and probably all other manufacturers) do the minimum regarding effective management of battery energy. What's the next surprise?
Post-script: After some research, I understand most of this thread. (It's somewhat of a relief that my mind still works!) Now to convince my LSW about the need for double 6V batteries. GW
Do it GK 👍🏻. I find myself with an over abundance of battery power now, and I'm just looking for more things to power and spend those amp hours on. Possibly stereo upgrade next. I power a lot of stuff already, CPAP, fans, radio 24/7, TV, kids charging iPads, and I even leave the blue LED lighting on at night just because it looks cool. I can be as carefree as I want, and my generator/Cotek charger brings the batteries back up fast. No regrets on my upgrade, and my batteries are no longer my weakest link. Now it's freshwater limiting my time... I'm looking into squeezing a bigger FW tank underneath next.
When do you sleep, Gary M?
Speaking of water, just ordered a 2 gal accumulator tank. https://www.ebay.com/itm/361337105543
When my spouse visits the loo at night, it's not the crawling over me that wakes me up, it's the annoying pump sound below my pillow. Is this, too, on your list? GK
It's only 8:45pm here on the west coast :)
My pump is at the other end of the trailer under the bunk so I don't hear it that bad at night. It was pretty loud at first and I noticed it was due to the pex tubing vibrating against the hole in the wall that it passes through. I just wedged some foam around it and problem solved. Much quieter now.
You could go this route as well if you want complete silence.. (see photo 😂).
Quote from: Gary M on July 19, 2018, 11:54:23 PMNow it's freshwater limiting my time... I'm looking into squeezing a bigger FW tank underneath next.
Gary, You have a truck, why not just stick a few water jugs in there? I keep an empty 7 gal jug in my front storage for extra water while boondocking, but have not boondocked enough to need it. ;)
https://www.rei.com/product/618168/reliance-aqua-tainer-7-gal
Quote from: Gary M on July 20, 2018, 12:50:47 AM
My pump is at the other end of the trailer under the bunk so I don't hear it that bad at night. It was pretty loud at first and I noticed it was due to the pex tubing vibrating against the hole in the wall that it passes through. I just wedged some foam around it and problem solved. Much quieter now.
The moron that mounted the pump in my 16TBS actually had the end of it resting against the sq Al tubing under the bunk, what a racket it made! :-\
Pulled the screws, moved it back a 1/4"- problem solved. Careless mistakes that should never happen in the factory.
Remembering Ford's old slogan of "Quality is job 1" tells a lot about the reality of manufacturing. They didn't say "Perfection is job 1". Their goal is to produce a quality product at an affordable price. I think LL did that very well. Two companies that I think of that tried harder for perfection were Rolls-Royce and Waterford Crystal. I would rather not pay for perfection.
I don't think any of us can honestly say that everything that we have done in our work lives would earn an "A". That's just part of being human.
The only person that will do anything to your standard is you.
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Quote from: nhlakes on July 20, 2018, 07:12:01 AM
Gary, You have a truck, why not just stick a few water jugs in there? I keep an empty 7 gal jug in my front storage for extra water while boondocking, but have not boondocked enough to need it. ;)
https://www.rei.com/product/618168/reliance-aqua-tainer-7-gal
My FW tank sags really bad between the 2 support braces they used. The 26 gallon tank only holds 18 gallons of useable water because of the sag(confirmed with bucket testing). Instead of just fabricating new aluminum braces for the existing tank, I'm going to try and fit a bigger tank in there since I need the new braces made anyways.
ameri-kart.com makes tanks in all sorts of shapes of sizes, I just need to get under there and measure. I'm hoping to be able to fit a 40-50 gallon tank, but I would be happy with even a 30 if that's all that can fit.
Sure I could carry extra water jugs, and i do on long trips.. but an 18 gallon tank just isn't acceptable to me on a $30k TT.
Quote from: Steve Sanders on July 20, 2018, 09:50:51 AM
Remembering Ford's old slogan of "Quality is job 1" tells a lot about the reality of manufacturing. They didn't say "Perfection is job 1". Their goal is to produce a quality product at an affordable price. I think LL did that very well.
The thing is the majority of quality issues I find would cost absolutely
nothing to do right in the first place. No extra materials needed, no extra time needed.
Quote from: Gary M on July 20, 2018, 01:04:15 PM
...
Sure I could carry extra water jugs, and i do on long trips.. but an 18 gallon tank just isn't acceptable to me on a $30k TT.
Agreed, especially when sold as a 26gal tank.
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Back to the topic of battery chargers...the Cotek 1250 runs $299 USD, making it somewhat over $400 CAD. Too dear for my LSW!
Any other brand recommends pushing 50 amps or so and in the $200 CAD price range; preferably from Amazon.ca?
Also looked at Kirkland 6V 205 Ah at an Alberta Costco...$140 CAD. Seems awesome price for Canada. Any comments?
Thanks. GK
Thank you. GK
GK look at the progressive dynamics converters. They're cheaper and highly rated. You can manually put them in boost mode while boondocking too 👍🏻
I highly recommend the Progressive Dynamics.
Just finished installing one in my new 2018 16TBS- nothing wrong- yet- with the WFCO, but I like the PD better.
Left the WFCO in place but disconnected- the PD is installed right behind the WFCO chassis/fuse panel.
I also have one installed in my Transit wagon for the house battery I added.
And yes the boost mode is a significant advantage over the WFCO- plus it is Amercan made.
Quote from: Gary M on July 22, 2018, 01:39:16 AM
GK look at the progressive dynamics converters. They're cheaper and highly rated. You can manually put them in boost mode while boondocking too 👍🏻
What does boost mode do for you?
PowerMax seems to be another affordable quality charger line out of Florida. Many offerings on amazon.ca Prime around the $200 level. Looking at the 45 amp model for $214. Anybody used this brand? Thanks. GK
My brain is starting to discombobulate...again! Before pulling the trigger on a stand alone 45 amp converter/charger, I looked over the specs for the PD 4045KA power center in the TT and asked myself Why bother? It's 3 stage and 45 amps!
My plan is to install 2-225Ah 6V Trojans, but not more and never a solar system. I understand 20% of Ah for a charge rate is about ideal. The PD 4045 is all I need for effective charging, right? Am I missing something here? (Besides enough neurons) GK
Your existing charger will do fine with your two GC batteries. While the recommendation is not to charge at more than 25% of your battery's capacity there is no problem with charging at a lower rate. It just takes longer, but if you are plugged in overnight, the batteries will fully charge at even 10%.
David
Quote from: Merlin on July 22, 2018, 07:49:33 PM
Quote from: Gary M on July 22, 2018, 01:39:16 AM
GK look at the progressive dynamics converters. They’re cheaper and highly rated. You can manually put them in boost mode while boondocking too
What does boost mode do for you?
I just completed installing a PD in my Camplite the last few weeks-
boost mode- Sometimes when camped where there are abbreviated generator hours- I put mine into boost to get all I can back into the batteries quickly.
I've been in National Parks where they have this wierd schedule for generators- for instance here is what Glacier allows>
"Generator use in campgrounds is permitted only during the hours: 8:00 - 10:00 am; 12 noon - 2:00 pm; and 5:00 - 7:00 pm"
I've even been in a campground where 2 hours is the max you can run your generator each day.
Combined they are enough to fully charge but if you want to leave for part of the day and miss a couple of those windows- well regular bulk charge won't cut it. Boost crams a little more in ;)
Yup, the PD boost mode bumps it up from 13.6v to 14.4v with the push of a button. WFCO converters advertise a 14.4v bulk mode, but that's only when you're battery is below 50%(which you shouldn't be at anyways), and even then, it only stays in bulk mode for a very short period of time, making these very inefficient for charging with a generator. You're basically wasting gas. Additionally, my WFCO 8735 would only supply 15a during the normal 13.6v charge cycle, which is much lower than the recommended charging specs of newer batteries today, and will never fully charge them. My vmaxtanks require a minumum of 30a for 2 of them.
My Cotek charger will stay at 14.7v @ 50a on its own until my batteries are at 85%-ish SOC.
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Charge-Wizard-Tri-Fold-Flyer.pdf
So my PD 4000 series power center specs proclaim it has a boost mode of 14.4V that will charge the battery up to 90% in 3-4 hours using its Charge Wizard Tech, patented, no less. Yahoo... :-\
Is this all smoke and mirrors?
GaryM et al, To mitigate voltage drop, I'm thinking of doubling up my existing #8 AWG -ve battery feed which theoretically gives me a #5 equivalent. Enough? Also, must I also make a corresponding increase in my +ve line? Thank you. GK
How far away are your batteries from the charger? I would replace the 8awg with 4awg if the distance is 10' or more. (Just leave the 8awg in place) If you want to get the most out of your new upgrade that is 👍🏻.
I've found that the Victron Bluetooth monitor I installed is almost as valuable as the battery upgrade itself. Being able to see my exact state of charge at any time from my iPhone is VERY handy, and a LOT more accurate than just reading voltage through the system. I would definitely pick up one of these later on or at some point if you can..
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-BMV-712-Battery-Monitor-Bluetooth/dp/B075RTSTKS
Quote from: GrampaKilt on July 30, 2018, 12:19:53 PM
So my PD 4000 series power center specs proclaim it has a boost mode of 14.4V that will charge the battery up to 90% in 3-4 hours using its Charge Wizard Tech, patented, no less. Yahoo... :-\
Is this all smoke and mirrors?
GK I don't think the 4000 series have the ability to be manually put into boost mode. I think that's only on the 9000 series. Even still, it should serve you a lot better than the WFCO.
Quote from: Gary M on July 30, 2018, 12:45:43 PM
How far away are your batteries from the charger? I would replace the 8awg with 4awg if the distance is 10' or more. (Just leave the 8awg in place) If you want to get the most out of your new upgrade that is 👍🏻.
The battery wiring is definitely undersized in my 2018. The feed from the battery positive back to the charger is 8AWG but even worse the ground connection to the frame, which LL uses for the negative path from the charger is a bare copper 12-14AWG wire!
It is of course shorter than the battery positive but still...I wouldn't have done it that way.
So that is another of my "to do" list items- bigger wire on both.
Yup, mine was the same ADR. I ran 2 new grounds to the chassis with 4awg. One for the charger, and the other for my battery monitor shunt. Used 4awg for the positive wire to the charger also. My charger is like a foot away from the batteries so I have hardly any voltage loss.
To connect the batteries in series, I used a really thick 2/0 wire(not to be confused with 2awg!)
Re: PD 4045 power center. I contacted Progressive Dynamics. The tech wrote back that the 14.4 VDC boost mode for recharging kicks in at 11.7 to 11.8 VDC under load.
So let me get this straight. According to the charts, at 12.0 VDC resting, a battery is considered 50% discharged. At 11.8 VDC resting, the battery is 100% discharged. Boondocking, my battery monitor reads 50% discharged and I hook up my genny to recharge. If I've turned off all DC loads, the VDC will probably read 12.0 which means the boost mode does not activate. Presumably, that is why many have commented about the benefits of a manual activation option for boost mode.
Should not the manufacturer be saying that to activate boost mode, one should turn on enough DC loads to drop the voltage to equal or below 11.7 before hooking up a charging source!?? Or, maybe the manufacturer assumes no one turns off all sources of DC draw, so at 50% the VDC will likely be at the trigger level.
If the battery is, by way of example, 70% discharged and I want a quick charge, does this mean I should turn on every conceivable DC draw, and maybe the boost mode will trigger?
My battery monitor should be arriving soon. In the meantime, I'm interested to know what others find are the typical voltages present when at 50% discharge (assuming normal DC usage at the time). Thanks again for bearing with me. GK
I was going to try their 45a drop in replacement for my WFCO, until I read that the manual boost mode was only available on the 9000's. If you're discharging your batteries to those voltages that the tech rep told you to kick in boost mode, the batteries might not last too long. 12.2v would be my cutoff before running the gen. I wonder how accurate the tech reps statement was because ive seen lots of good reviews on the PD converters.
The good thing about the battery monitors with shunts, is that you dont have to wait for your batteries to stablize with no loads to get an accurate reading. Mines pretty much spot on accurate all the time. Loads on or off.
GaryM, interesting point about shunt based battery monitors, that is, where voltage is measured matters. And perhaps this concept is the key behind the PD 4000 series converters and their positive reviews.
I now understand that the most accurate place to measure battery voltage is at the battery itself. If a battery is healthy, there should little difference between load and at rest, maybe even fully so. Given that the power center is located downstream from the battery, voltage measured there will be influenced by distance from battery, wire AWG, not to mention a load on somewhere. Is it possible that 12.2 VDC (using Gary's parameter) measured by a shunt based monitor could be 11.8 at the power center?? GK
Quote from: GrampaKilt on July 31, 2018, 06:53:34 PM
GaryM, interesting point about shunt based battery monitors, that is, where voltage is measured matters. And perhaps this concept is the key behind the PD 4000 series converters and their positive reviews.
I now understand that the most accurate place to measure battery voltage is at the battery itself. If a battery is healthy, there should little difference between load and at rest, maybe even fully so. Given that the power center is located downstream from the battery, voltage measured there will be influenced by distance from battery, wire AWG, not to mention a load on somewhere. Is it possible that 12.2 VDC (using Gary's parameter) measured by a shunt based monitor could be 11.8 at the power center?? GK
There is no particular relationship between the health of a battery and the load-no load voltage. A completely healthy battery may dip very low in voltage under short-term heavy loads-----even down into the single digits. Put a volt meter on your car's starting battery while someone cranks the engine and you'll see what I mean! Voltage is a rather coarse way to measure battery health and the only possibility of it being valid and reliable is to either check voltage at the battery while at rest or using a meter hooked up to a shunt. Since the voltage will vary a lot with load, you cannot determine the health or charge state of a battery while it is under a load without using a shunt meter.
I'm leery of the "boost mode" concept because just boosting the voltage isn't going to help much until the battery gets to the absorption stage in charging. What a discharged battery needs to recover is current, not voltage. Read the "Battery Charging" section at this site and you'll see what I mean. I would need to know a lot more about what the boost mode does in a particular 3-stage brand of charger to be able so say it's more than just marketing hype.
https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/batteries-and-charging/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html
Quote from: Merlin on August 01, 2018, 12:25:29 AM
I'm leery of the "boost mode" concept because just boosting the voltage isn't going to help much until the battery gets to the absorption stage in charging. What a discharged battery needs to recover is current, not voltage. Read the "Battery Charging" section at this site and you'll see what I mean. I would need to know a lot more about what the boost mode does in a particular 3-stage brand of charger to be able so say it's more than just marketing hype.
https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/batteries-and-charging/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html
The PD boost mode increases voltage AND current- say normal bulk charge is putting 5A into a battery- activating boost may put 25A into the battery.
Of course the voltage HAS to go up to increase the charging current.
Obviously a lot of current and higher voltage may decrease long term battery life some- but as I said earlier when you only have a short window in which to charge- you do what you gotta do ;)
I'd venture to say in a week of dry camping and running a generator a few hours a day my pair of paralleled 105AH AGM batteries is never charged properly and fully.
So when I either get home or to a site with hookups (very rare for me) I let it do the full normal charge and skip the boost charge.
Yea, amps increase as well. I had the same concerns about the boost mode initially Merlin, until I did some more research on the battery specs, etc..
For example, the recommended charging current for my AGM's is 30-70a for 2 of them. Boost mode would still be in specs. His charger is a 45a so it's not going to put out more than that. (my stock WFCO 8735 charger would never put out more than 15a in bulk mode!)
Also, the batteries themselves will limit the incoming amperage and slow it down around 75-80ish% SOC. I see the amperage on mine start dropping down at around 80% SOC while charging.
GK- The Trojan 6v 225ah T-105's are actually at 50% when they are at 12.1v(for 2 of them). I said 12.2v earlier because I don't even like taking mine down that low. 12.2 would actually be closer to 60% if you're measuring SOC by voltage.
Quote from: GrampaKilt on July 31, 2018, 06:53:34 PMIf a battery is healthy, there should little difference between load and at rest, maybe even fully so.
What a learning experience this has been and continues to be! Thanks all for your contributions.
To clarify my quote above. I meant if voltage is measured at the battery. I think GaryM found this to be accurate while boondocking. It's obvious what I really need now is my battery monitor to arrive! GK
which monitor did you end up getting GK? I would install the monitor before replacing the converter, so you can compare the amperage/performance between them.
I purchased the one in the link below. Liked the round format and the lack of complicated functions. I don't need Bluetooth capability. Perhaps a Victron knock off or made at the same factory? Who knows these days.
Had ordered a Drok, but it couldn't handle heavy gauge wire at the shunt, a good indication it wasn't designed for what I needed it for. GK
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Battery-Monitor-detector-80V-50A-Capacity-Tester-lithium-lead-acid-12V-24V-car/183258431923?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Good news: I have a pile of new Battleborn LiFePO4 batteries at my place with a bunch of big solar panels and boxes of controllers and accessories. Bad news: They're for my brother in law's new 5th wheel and not for me. ;) He and his wife are boondocking in AZ all winter and setting up right. He may have more $ into his solar setup than I have in my whole camper. ;) They're already on the road and will be swinging by here soon to pick up all the goodies and having them professionally installed by one of the top solar guys out there.
But that doesn't help me... My wife and I have been doing more camping without power and will be doing 4 days in a NP without power next week. I've gone 3 nights before with just a little help from my gen, but I'm now seriously considering adding a second battery.
I'd love to go the LithiumIon route, but cannot justify the expense, since we do not do THAT much boondocking / drycamping. For now I'm simply considering adding a 2nd battery. Perhaps another Cabela's group 27 lead acid deep cycle - not a bad cheap battery especially when found on sale.
(Finally, my question) I have a 2016 with a single battery tray up front. Does anyone have a link for an aluminum double tray that I can easily swap out on the Aframe? Or will I have to do a custom deal?
Norco makes a very solid battery box for two GC batteries, your best choice if you want two batteries.
The existing aluminum frame is obviously too small. So remove it. The Norco box is strong enough if supported by two aluminum angle cross support members. Use 1-1/2" angle and notch the ends so you can bolt to the top of the trailer frame with heavy self tapping screws.
Two GC batteries will give you triple the AHs of a single, so if you went 2+ days with one, you should be able to go for about a week on two GCs.
David
Depending how old your current battery is, I would just buy a matched pair of 6v golf cart batteries. Problem with mismatched batteries is that the weaker one is always draining from the stronger one.
Quote from: DavidM on September 20, 2018, 12:15:34 PM
Norco makes a very solid battery box for two GC batteries, your best choice if you want two batteries.
...
Assume you are referring to this?
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-HM426-Commercial-Automotive-Batteries/dp/B003VAUG5A
Quote from: Gary M on September 20, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Depending how old your current battery is, I would just buy a matched pair of 6v golf cart batteries. ...
Yea, the current Cabela's DC 27 was new this spring. It's in real good shape so was considering pairing with the same, but I hear you both on the GC batteries. Have considered those in the past, but was thinking I might possibly make the jump to Lithium Ion some day, so have kept my battery investment to a min so far.
Decisions decisions... I have not shopped GC batteries yet, what's a reasonable price for a reasonable GC battery?
Just bought an Andersen NoSway this week (should arrive this weekend) so trying not to go too crazy all at once. ;) Also still considering a solar suitcase... ;)
Yes, that is the Noco box.
Costco has GC2 batteries for about $100 each, maybe with core trade in though. Batteries Plus has them for a few bucks more than that, maybe about the same as Costco with no trade in. Both are Deka or similar. You can't buy a bad GC battery, the market would run you out of business if you didn't make a decent product, unlike so called dual purpose batteries.
You can do all I described above for $20-30 of aluminum, $62 for the Noco box, and a couple of hundred for the batteries. Li will cost many times that much, probably a thousand plus when all is said and done.
David
Thanks - I was googling the same and saw that Costco should be under $100 and Trojan 105's under $150, if I go this route I'll go for the Costco flavor based on the data I've gathered so far.
Aware if the Lithium Ion cost, the Battleborns I'm holding for my BIL are around $900/each.
My next question will be will my stock Progressive PD4045 converter charge it OK - and what kind of portable charger would best to charge them quick from the generator...? Need to pickup a new portable charger anyway.
Never played with 6V in series so will need to also figure out if I will still be able to use the Blue Sea 6006 single circuit on/off switch that I've been planning to install.
Two GC batteries in series act like one big 12V, so the PD charger will work fine and the disconnect switch will also work fine. Although it would be better to install a 30A circuit breaker instead of a switch and accomplish two purposes. Amazon has them, see https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DIGK346/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Why do you need a portable charger? Just hook up the shore power cord to your generator with an adapter and let your PD charge it at 45A max. That will pull 6-8 amps from the generator, so you can't run any other heavy loads with the generator at the same time, assuming it is a Honda EU2000 with a maximum continuous rating of 13 amps..
David
PD is better than WFCO for charging. You should be ok with what ya got 👍🏻.
I installed a Lund truck box on my trailer tongue for the 2 batteries and it gave me lots of extra outside secure storage too. I keep all my electrical stuff in there; shore power wire, solar wire, charge controller, extension cords, adapter, etc. I fastened it with u-bolts to the trailer frame and bolted 2 battery trays inside for the batteries. Here's an example, but you'd need to find one that fit the space you have on the trailer and the batteries inside (but 2 group 27 would fit in this one).
https://www.amazon.com/Lund-4448FM-Brite-Aluminum-Flush/dp/B009VZX8DG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1537491119&sr=8-2&keywords=lund+48+side+mount+truck+box
Quote from: Merlin on September 20, 2018, 09:57:39 PM
I installed a Lund truck box on my trailer tongue...
Thanks for the link, I was originally considering something just like that.
Gary & David, I have not researched the characteristics of my charger too much, nor have I researched how many amps a pair of 6V GC batteries can absorb when low. In other words, if my converter only puts out 6-8 amps max and a pair of GC batteries can easily/safely absorb 20amps from a portable 'smart' charger that will safely start reducing amperage when the batteries reach 80% and reduce to a maintenance load when full - and have a clear indicator that will tell me when they reach 100% charge - that will help me reduce the amount of time I need to run my generator(s). I have a pair of Honda 2000/2200. Since I'm often at campgrounds where running the gen(s) less often is desirable, that's a factor.
Plus I need a new portable charger anyway. My old portable charger recently died. I have a onboard charger for the trolling motor batteries of my fishing boat, and a few low amperage maintainers lying around, but need something bigger for when I need more amps in less time - so I'd like to get something that will be ideal for the GC batteries.
Quote from: DavidM on September 20, 2018, 08:40:16 PM
... Although it would be better to install a 30A circuit breaker instead of a switch and accomplish two purposes. Amazon has them, see https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DIGK346/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
...
30A breaker is not a bad idea (although I already have the shutoff switch ;) ) will have to consider that...
Thanks for all the help!
I wasn't clear. The PD will put out up to 45 amps DC and will draw 6-8 amps AC from the shore power to do it. There is no need for a separate 3 step charger, the PD does that.
I also noticed another error in my previous post. If you are going to charge a deeply discharged battery then the PD could put out the full rated 45 amps for a while. So if you do install a circuit breaker, then make it 45 amps, not 30.
David
Quote from: DavidM on September 21, 2018, 07:49:00 AM
I wasn't clear. The PD will put out up to 45 amps DC and will draw 6-8 amps AC from the shore power to do it. There is no need for a separate 3 step charger, the PD does that.
I also noticed another error in my previous post. If you are going to charge a deeply discharged battery then the PD could put out the full rated 45 amps for a while. So if you do install a circuit breaker, then make it 45 amps, not 30.
David
All good info - thanks. Actually impressed with my stock converter. ;)
Yea your'e lucky you got the 45a PD. If mine came with that, I would have left it alone. Sadly my WFCO only puts out a max of 15a DC charging power unless I drain the batteries below 50%... but who's gonna do that? Even then it would only bulk charge for a short period.
Progressive dynamics make good converter/charges.
Picked up 2 Costco 6V GC batteries today. Heavy buggers.
(https://i.imgur.com/yNMKHoEl.jpg?2)
Also got an 8' piece of aluminum 1.5" angle as recommended by David. (and a 12" blade for my mitre saw designed for aluminum)
Just occurred to me I might return to pick up some smaller lighter gauge aluminum stock to practice, never having cut angle aluminum on the mitre saw.
(https://i.imgur.com/XdfUX92l.jpg)
GC batteries installed. Tomorrow the Andersen (weather permitting)
Awesome work man! Looks factory 👍🏻
Quote from: Gary M on September 22, 2018, 09:39:44 PM
Awesome work man! Looks factory 👍🏻
I'm surprised you consider "Look factory" to be a compliment. ;D
Now that's funny Merlin 😂😂😂
Quote from: Gary M on September 22, 2018, 09:39:44 PM
Awesome work man! Looks factory 👍🏻
Thanks. Actually not done with the battery tray. I'm going to add a cross section on each side to secure the battery holder from moving side to side. That aluminum angle bracket is real easy to work with. First time using it. After paying $36 for a blade I'll want to get some use of of it. I envision pop riveting in some framing to add an additional shelf here and there... ;)
Quote from: Gary M on September 22, 2018, 09:39:44 PM
Awesome work man! Looks factory 👍🏻
If you think it looks factory, buyer beware. The AL angles are probably attached with #6 Nylon screws that missed the frame anyway :P .
Swapped my 16TBS over to 2 GC batteries toward the end of our recent 32 day trip. My old AGM pair finally gave up...I thought they were 4ish years old but the date codes seem to indicate they were even older than that.
Picked up the Sam's Club Duracell brand, which the Costco/Interstate GC batteries pictured above appear to be the same unit- both made by East Penn/Deka. Honestly did not even check Costco- the 2 I frequent in SC* do not stock GC batteries so I figured others didn't either.
The thin gauge battery tray on my 16 is freakin' welded to the trailer tongue :(
So far it is holding up but I plan to overlay it with some thick 1.5" AL angle-happen to have a 20' stick of that lying around.
I used two seperate 6V plastic Noco batt boxes- reason- I want to be able to pick them up individually if need be- two in one box is too heavy for me to risk hernia #5. Plus the single boxes were only $9 ea on Amazon.
BTW I cut AL all the time on my table saw with a regular carbide wood saw blade- works great- just go slow. No need for a special saw blade.
* Both Sam's and Costco can be few and far away in the west I found. In fact in WA state Sam's closed ALL their stores. Had to plan our trip carefully to be near either when out west-
I like buying Costco gas when I can due to the high detergent and low price- but just like last summer I ran into Costco's out west that would not accept my Costco credit card to activate the pump- something to do with not reading the Costco membership number on the Citibank card.
The attendent would swipe a generic member card to start the pump then I could pay with the Costco card....weird.
In the total trip of 8482 miles I think we only managed to fill up at a Costco twice. Sam's maybe 3 times.
The blade I bought cuts so easily, I'm sure, as you say, any carbide tipped high count blade would be fine.
Your post on buying gas at Costco makes me realize that we have NEVER seek out Costco for gas while traveling. Our local store does not sell gas so we are just not used to fueling up there. I hear gas to cheaper at Costcos that sell gas so I will try to remember that on our next trip!
Final pic with the side supports (and Andersen) installed. Still raining. Heading out Friday afternoon for a long weekend and looking forward to seeing how the Andersen works out. Felt great on the short test ride.
(https://i.imgur.com/AHCw2UBl.jpg)
That looks like a "better than factory" installation. Curious why you put in the two length wise aluminum members. Wouldn't drilling through the box and screwing to the cross wise aluminum members work just as well? I would have thought that Noco box would be plenty strong mounted that way.
Also another 100 lbs near the tongue will help sway tremendously with or without the Andersen.
Davod
Quote from: DavidM on September 25, 2018, 03:41:33 PM
That looks like a "better than factory" installation. Curious why you put in the two length wise aluminum members. Wouldn't drilling through the box and screwing to the cross wise aluminum members work just as well? I would have thought that Noco box would be plenty strong mounted that way.
Also another 100 lbs near the tongue will help sway tremendously with or without the Andersen.
Davod
Thanks. The Noco box has external slots on the 4 corners to screw through. While unlikely, it seemed it could potentially slide left or right out of those slots. The side brackets I made lock it into place - and the added weight of the extra aluminum angle that I had left over is noise. So, while I may not have needed it, it me feel better. ;)
Sway was never really an issue. I figured the trailer would be fine 95% of the time. Going over bridges in strong wind with trucks passing I could feel it a little, but it did not bother me (although it made my wife a little nervous). I haven't used a WDH with sway in 15+ years. I suspect I am going to like it - especially because I'm pretty sure I'll be able to put my tailgate down easily once I get it fine tuned. (ie. shave off enough plastic from the jack cover ;) )
There are $$ consequences to appreciating this forum, this thread; herein, FWIW, is my inspired effort to install double 6 Volt batteries on the 14DB. It includes an aluminum angle frame* and 2 single battery boxes (NOCO $14 CAD from Amazon at the time). Obviously, a double box or one made out of checker plate aluminum are nicer, but I felt the huge price difference didn't warrant the investment. #4 AWG lines replaced the #8 AWGs back to the Progressive Dynamics (PD4045KV) power center. At the B-, I reworked my old negative disconnect to fit onto the terminal (and get it out of the weather). Attached to that is a shunt rated at 50A for this: Battery Monitor detector 80V 50A Capacity Tester lithium lead-acid 12V 24V from Ebay/Aliexpress. (I have no inverter, and no plans to get one, so the 50A is plenty.) Finally, some scraps of plexiglass were fashioned to make a cover for it all.
At B+, and as recommended by several on this forum for overcurrent protection, a 50A ANL fuse was installed. Not seen in the pics is a PD EMSPT30C Surge Protector.
Costco Canada also carries 6V deep cycles at around $140 CAD. However, I picked up some Trojan T105's for $180 CAD (now $185) feeling that the increase in AH and their reputation was worth it. https://www.myequipment.ca/listings/view/20455/trojan-t-105-6-volt-deep-cycle-battery-canada
When the great wizard (Merlin) makes a suggestion, it is wise to get 'er done. Hence, the water pump switch is now lighted :D. GK
*Also seen in the pic is the aluminum tube structure needed to raise the propane tanks in order to accommodate the WD bracket.
Cool. I still need to add a real battery monitor.
Dry camping for a few days and testing the pair of new 6volts ... stock monitor still reading 2/3 after 2 nights of watching movies (streaming via Roku stick in the 12v tv w/cell hotspot), running cpap all night, generously running lights, lots of fan use during the last 2 afternoons, water pump, charging phones, etc...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I use the Victron with the Bluetooth to monitor mine on my phone. Well worth the $ in my opinion. The range on it is great too. Here's a screenshot of mine right now..
There may be some readers whose LSWs will not take kindly to spending a couple of C notes on a battery monitor like the Victron. I pushed hard but in the end had to settle for this much cheaper one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/80V-350A-100A-50A-Waterproof-Digital-LCD-Battery-Voltmeter-Voltage-Meter-Monitor/332761873997?hash=item4d7a273e4d%3Am%3AmxEEj0z_8ERacti4cWgipqQ&var=541887530445
See "Bat Ind" picture in my last post.
If ordered, it will not come with instructions that one needs for setup. I emailed the vendor who responded in a timely fashion with this address for a PDF http://115.28.16.44:81/file/6177.pdf .
Another indicator of an inexpensive product was that the cable to the monitor was only 1 foot long :P! It took a few hours of searching, but I finally found some card reader shielded cable from a local security system install company and spliced it in. Electronically, the product is working well. GK
Quote from: GrampaKilt on September 30, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
There may be some readers whose LSWs will not take kindly to spending a couple of C notes on a battery monitor like the Victron. I pushed hard but in the end had to settle for this much cheaper one https://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=183258431923&view=all&tid=1843804184008 as pictured in my last post.
I could not get the eBay link to work, is there another link or description?
This is a better link. It also gives one the option to purchase 100A or 350A versions. I will also insert this link into my previous post. GK
https://www.ebay.com/itm/80V-350A-100A-50A-Waterproof-Digital-LCD-Battery-Voltmeter-Voltage-Meter-Monitor/332761873997?hash=item4d7a273e4d%3Am%3AmxEEj0z_8ERacti4cWgipqQ&var=541887530445
Also Amazon.com has them.
https://www.amazon.com/AiLi-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Voltage-Motorhome/dp/B07FGFFHC6/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_13?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=DCEZT2DVJHPNZTAE9MEW