Hi, we are getting our 2017 LL 21 RBS in a month. I will be towing with a 2015 F150 super crew V8 with a Gross Combined weight of 14,400. I am guessing my truck weighs in just south of <5000lbs (though I will weigh it). When purchasing, the dealer said that weight distribution and sway controls would be "overkill" with my TV. I am still undecided if I totally believe that and thought I would seek the wisdom of the crowds!
Thoughts are appreciated!
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I would try it without a WDH but I think you won't need it. Your F150 has plenty of tow and tongue weight capacity. It has a stiff suspension which resists sway. Just make sure you keep your tongue weight at 10% or better of overall TT weight. Also when you drop the hitch on the truck, the rear end should not drop more than 1-1/2 to 2".
David
I'am towing a 2015 21RBS with a Tundra crew cab and a 5.7 V8 and have not used a WDH. Have not had any problems. Some of the time I don't even know it is back there.
Gerald
Trucks are available with so many different suspensions and tires and electronic nannies and wheel bases and etc that you should probably simply try your rig out before deciding on a WDH. Sway control, however, is valuable for most setups. The two are related, but you can have a nice level setup and still get pushed around by wind gusts and passing trucks. It's possible your F-150 is so stiff and massive compared to your 21 that you'll never feel a sideways push, but I suspect not. I suggest you go to etrailer.com and at least take a look at sway control devices. You may still want to try your TV/camper setup first on a shakedown trip before deciding on hitches, but despite what your dealer told you, keep an open mind about sway control.
I had to add air bags to my F150 since the previous owner put Fox Shocks on that leveled the truck from the nose down factory stance. Sway control is needed since the LL is so Lite. I did tow prior to adding the air bags and then decided to add. They do improve the ride for us.
I've towed mine with and without, ( I have a 2500 Chevy). As far weight distrabution goes, I didn't really notice a difference. Sway control is another issue, I like the sway control and notice the difference while driving, high winds, passing tractor trailers all have an effect that sway control helps reduce. I went with the Anderson WD set up, more for the sway control then anything else.
Thx everyone good info!
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Here's the deal - apologies if you already know this - but most people think WD gives you more capability, when in fact IT CUTS DOWN ON GCVWR IN MOST CASES. Why ? How ?
I'll tell ya why, Buster. Because WDH not only transfers tongue weight from the rear wheels of the TV to the front wheels of the TV, BUT ALSO TO THE TRAILER. So you exceed individual axle ratings before the overall rating of the entire system.
So, you could be perfectly within the tow rating of the trailer axles, but then by going WDH and adding a portion of the tongue weight to the trailer axles end up exceeding the axle ratings, without realizing it.
Point being, is - listen up here, Sparky - if you are playing too close to ANY of the limits, you can end up exceeding one or more and never be any the wiser, until you are upside down in a ditch 100' off the road listening to the crackle of the flames.
Point being, is, contrary to misconception, WDH does NOT increase your tow rating, or necessarily add safety margin. You actually have to know where you stand relative to the ratings and the safety envelope.
How do you know you need WDH ? Glad you axed.
1) Your tongue weight is MARGINALLY over the rear axle rating of the TV, and you have capacity left on the front axle and also the trailer axle rating(s).
2) Actually, that's pretty much it. Shoulda been three, since I put two extra conditions into it. So, efficiency ?
3) It's all about the tongue weight. You can kinda sorta correct sway with anti-sway, but it's actually caused by mis-managing your tongue weight. So get that right, and everything else falls into place. If you get sway from wind and passing vehicles, get anti-sway. If you get sway because tongue weight it buggered, fix your tongue weight. WDH can help, but it isn't magic and can't overcome everything.
4) I said there would be 4 reasons, and I'm always true to my word. WDH really comes into its own when you have WAAAAAY extra axle capacity in the TV front axle and the trailer axles themselves, but the tongue weight is a touch too heavy. But you can overcome that with helper springs, airbags, etc. in the TV rear suspension and it's simpler all around.
Moral of the story ? TANSTATMTV.
I pull with an F150 so I don't have much need for weight distribution with the 21 RBS. When we camp locally (within 100 miles) I just hook up to the ball and go. However we have made 2 cross country trips (2015/2016) with our LL and opted to utilize the Andersen hitch for anti-sway/anti-porpoising for the long hauls. It definitely provides for a better ride at higher speeds, high winds, rough roads, and busy freeway traffic. The truck and trailer are more unified.
We have the Andersen hitch for our 21BHS and Jeep Grand Cherokee and I agree with Surfsup 100%. You might not need sway control but there will be times when you're glad you have it. Especially on longer trips when you're traveling at higher speeds on highways with wind and trucks passing you. Since we aren't towing with a pick-up truck I'm really glad that we have it, but think it would be worthwhile on a pick-up as well.
Great Thanks for the feedback do you have a link to the hitch model y'all are using?
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Here is the link to their different WDH kits. We ordered the #3344 model, but there are different options depending on the size you need.
http://www.andersenhitches.com/Catalog/4-droprise-wd-kits.aspx
Great Discussion.
Re: Sway control. Can anyone recommend a brand for a sway control add on kit. I have seen pneumatic and friction ones from Reese. Also, i'm thinking I should probably have a piece of aluminum plate welded to the existing frame before drilling holes to mount the sway control kit.
Re: Weight Distribution. When I purchased my 21RBS the dealer provided a WD system but I have no idea what make it is. Because I have it, I'm going to keep it and only apply the minimum amount of tension necessary.
Bottom line for me is that I do need some sway control. My big problem is vehicles roaring up from the rear and passing me. A bit nerve racking at times!!
I've been satisfied with the Husky friction-type sway control recommended by Andy at CanAm RV.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7797/26505700223_96ca6ef981.jpg)
As seen in the photo, they sell a clamp-on ball mount so no drilling is necessary.
Are you able to provide the model number of your sway control kit? I am very interested in this one as I dont want to drill.
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Here's the first link that came up for "Husky Sway Control":
https://accessories.lazydays.com/husky-37498-left-handed-adjustable-sway-control-kit-14-1254?cid=52-0013-05&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrYbIBRCgnY-OluOk89EBEiQAZER58rb9vp1dskn7quf82p-owZ_5je44y6l9YZjtw5I17gMaAkE38P8HAQ (https://accessories.lazydays.com/husky-37498-left-handed-adjustable-sway-control-kit-14-1254?cid=52-0013-05&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrYbIBRCgnY-OluOk89EBEiQAZER58rb9vp1dskn7quf82p-owZ_5je44y6l9YZjtw5I17gMaAkE38P8HAQ)
To avoid drilling, this is the clamp-on ball you need (which looks like it would work with any sway control using the same sized ball):
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3SR2J48189&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-AT+-+RV+%26+Trailer+Covers-_-9SIA3SR2J48189&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrYbIBRCgnY-OluOk89EBEiQAZER58us4e4qC7bcq8Re5hHJhewTseVg-Ber4O4RrBE4TDNsaAo6g8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3SR2J48189&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-_-AT+-+RV+%26+Trailer+Covers-_-9SIA3SR2J48189&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrYbIBRCgnY-OluOk89EBEiQAZER58us4e4qC7bcq8Re5hHJhewTseVg-Ber4O4RrBE4TDNsaAo6g8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I ended up with the Husky, and not the EAZLift sway control, at the recommendation of Andy at CanAm RV. He said they were all very similar but that he slightly preferred the Husky.
Thanks for the links, checking into them now
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My tow vehicle is a 2014 Ram 1500 crew cab with camper shell and I installed Air Lift 1000# in coil springs last month, towing 21 BHS with no WDH or Sway control bar. I usually have 5 gal's of water in Black and Grey water tanks, and 1/4 full of fresh water. The dealer recommended having F/W tank pretty full to add weight over the axles. Too much water is just added tow weight IMO. I haven't notice any significant sway from passing trucks or cross winds. Installing the air bags with 30 PSI of air pressure (which I can fill up with my bicycle pump) it helped take out the squat in the rear of the truck when loaded down with gear and trailer. When not towing or hauling I drop the air to 7 PSI and rides nice. That's my set up and it works for me.
https://www.amazon.com/LIFT-60818-1000-Air-Spring/dp/B001OMVCIC/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1494341277&sr=1-1&keywords=air+bags+for+trucks
Hello All. I'm new to this forum, having just purchased our 'new to us' 2014 CampLite 13QBB from a dealer in Phoenix. Forgive me for making my introduction using this thread, but I promise to address the topic at hand...
My wife and I have enjoyed the heck out of our lifted 88 Coleman popup for the last eight years, dragging it to remote places it had no right to be. But eventually I was tired of hearing myself complain when it was time to execute the jigsaw puzzle exercise of repacking the popup and shuffling all of our gear around so we could could get back on the road. After a few years, we started contenting ourselves with staying in one place on our usual 5-7 day trips, instead of seeking our next 'perfect' campsite each day.
Living in Sedona for the last 26 years, so near the four corners, we tend gravitate to southern Utah and Colorado to get away from our touristy hometown hustle an bustle. It's hard to top Sedona for its magical beauty, but it is futilely restrictive to camp here. But between Zion and Moab UT, there is a gluttony of mind blowing scenery, and hundreds of miles of traversable off pavement splendor to behold. We are not campground types.
Enter the CampLite. Queen Bed, AC, Fridge, Toilet, and since it practically packs itself, we could easily camp in a new spot every night. Needless to say, the Coleman popup just got a for sale sign stuck to it. However, now that we're growing up (a little bit), with the 13QBB, I have new concerns... like seeing what's behind me, and invisible tree branches. Oh, and a slew of necessitated upgrades for our Jeep. I just finished the 4.55 axle gearing and a HD 242 Transfer Case last week. So, knowing that we can tow is great. But our lifted 4500 pound, relatively short wheelbase tow vehicle has had some unnerving sway issues with the 13QBB in strong winds and when rounding long bumpy sweeping turns at highway speeds. I assume the light weight compared to the CL camper's surface area plays a role here. Quite a departure from towing the old popup which was easy to forget was even there.
My CampLite conundrum revolves around those tiny aluminum frame rails. We initially purchased the well reviewed 400Lb Husky Centerline TS WDH/anti sway system, but fitment was not working out very well. First, I had to move the propane tanks forward enough to clear the rear sway bar brackets. Then when I had that sorted, the lower bolts on the brackets for the anti sway bars had nearly 3 inches of daylight between the bottom of the frame rail and the top of the lower bracket bolts. I knew if I tightened everything to spec the lower part of my tiny aluminum frame rail could crush with all the off center leverage.
I called eTrailer support, the guy asked "How much does your trailer weigh?". Following my answer he said "Don't tighten those bolts! and Why do you need a WDH?" I replied "One of your associates said it was the way to go." He told me to pack up the Husky and emailed me a return label. I then asked how to fix the sway problem. He said to get the Pro Series 83660 Sway Control Bar, and the required 2" receiver bracket - LINK - https://www.etrailer.com/s.aspx?qry=Pro+Series+83660 . Thanks for saving me $300 : )
I just got the Pro Series yesterday and I am so glad to be rid of 100 pounds of Husky hitch weight and reclaim 8 inches of ground clearance under my hitch. However... my CL frame rail is only 2w" x 3h" and the Pro Series anti sway bracket is about 8w" x 3h" and comes with six 3/8" self tapping mounting screws that are made of an unknown steel (no markings). I like that this unit is very light and only needs to be installed on one side of the frame (see attached images) But I am more than nervous about what drilling six 3/8" holes in my petit aluminum frame rail could mean structurally, and then reaming it together with dissimilar metals (galvanic corrosion anyone?).
Needless to say, I walked away from this project yesterday without drilling a single pilot hole. I spoke last night with a friend who does fab work and he said that I could get away with using 316 Stainless coarse thread hardware and he recommended not using self tapping anything, but rather to drill through the entire width of the frame rail so the nut would be on the inside of the rail and to use locknuts and nylon washers. Also he said to wrap or back any surface using PVC tape where the AL & SS metals could make contact. This all sounded great, but the thought of now drilling twelve 3/8" holes in my pristine CampLite frame is giving me shivers.
Have any of you been down this road? I talked to Amy at CampLite today and she could not definitively say if or how much these holes would have a negative structural impact, and suggested I contact a qualified RV service center. Since I need sway control regardless, I have considered gusseting the frame rail to add some rigidity to this pending installation, but I am hesitant to mess with the work of engineers. For instance, would gusseting the one rail transfer more stress to the other one? Any opinions?
At any rate, I would like to thank all of you who contribute to this wonderful online community. We have many mods planned for the 13QBB and will likely lean on you guys for support and encouragement. Hopefully we'll have some answers to share to balance out our inevitable questions before too long.
Best to all.
S
I would first measure the tongue weight of your rig using a bathroom scale. The loaded weight of your trailer is probably 3,000-3,500 lbs and you need at least 10% on the tongue. If you have less, move some stuff forward and see if that helps.
How much does your TV's rear end sag when you drop the tongue on it. Should be less than 2". If more then you probably do have more than enough tongue weight and you probably do need a WDH to reduce rear end sag.
I looked at sway control systems on eTrailer. They all have self tapping screws rather than clamp on attachments. Personally I don't think self tapping will hurt anything and I would rather do that than through bolt. Remember the screw doesn't carry the load, it just provides tension between the plate and the frame so that friction will carry the load.
We use a lot of stainless steel screws tapped into aluminum (masts, etc) on boats. Most people don't worry about it. But there is a product called Tuff-Gel that you put on the threads which insulates the ss from the aluminum. Put some under the attachment plate as well to insulate it all.
If you want to you could use a steel backing plate on the inside and temporarily clamp the attachment plate to the aluminum frame using a couple of C clamps and try it out on the road to see if it reduces sway. The force on that attachment plate isn't huge, maybe about 100-200 lbs when you turn sharply and a couple of C clamps should handle it if you are careful.
Finally, the long clamp on attachment plates on your original WDH are there for deeper frames. But you can cut them off so that you don't have that long lever that potentially could crush the LL's frame and drill some new holes for the bolts.
Keep at it. There is a way for your 13 to tow nicely.
David
Jeep made a lot of vehicles. Which one is this ?
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Quote from: DavidM on August 17, 2017, 05:14:51 PM
Keep at it. There is a way for your 13 to tow nicely.
David
Thank you David for the excellent advice!
The 13QBB weighs 2300 dry, with a max weight of 3000. My TV has adjustable air springs that provide up to 3" of lift and can be adjusted separately F/R. The shakedown trip gave me a chance to test everything with a typical load. With about 500lb added of water and gear the bathroom scale said 316lbs, so tongue weight appears to be in the sweet spot. Thought about the clamp idea for a test run, but then...
Funny, I was just looking to buy some Tuff gel when I came across and bought this with some 3" 5 mil PVC tape to prevent any metal to metal contact:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VASX0A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Should be here Saturday. No need for drilling (if it actually stays in place). If it gets wiggly, I bet I could drill a hole through the inner frame side of the new bracket and use one of the self tappers provided with the Pro Series kit (liberally gelled up, of course).
I can also play with various F/R air spring ride height scenarios as well. I haven't played with lowering the front suspension yet, as I was using my typical height for towing the Coleman on our short test run.
I'll post my findings after I get the new widget on Saturday.
Thanks again,
S
Quote from: Pinstriper on August 17, 2017, 06:10:02 PM
Jeep made a lot of vehicles. Which one is this ?
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Howdy Pinstriper
It's a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 with 33s and 6" adjustable lift. Pics...
Hmmm! Try dropping the front end and see if that doesn't solve your sway problem.
Your Grand Cherokee is probably heavier than my 2013 Nissan Pathfinder which tows my dual axle 16TBS just fine. The 16TBS is at least 500 lbs heavier than yours and the tongue weight is right at 10%. The dual axle helps with sway though.
That is why I am thinking that your sway problem could be more related to how the GC is set up.
David
I use a husky centerline on my 21. Is it needed? nope. Is is a good idea? I say yes. It helps a heavy wind, or a sudden lane change. Mine required no holes, however I did put a piece of rubber between the steel and aluminum for corrosion. I also had to notch my plastic propane tank cover to accommodate the brackets. On my sequoia it is no big deal, on my tacoma it makes a huge difference.
https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Husky/HT32218.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKCAjw_dTMBRBHEiwApIzn_JdB5TzRSAJ-2aBdBz6fNG6IR6Hx-QAIcF2QbTqCgIhCZMzB3QP0LxoCc_wQAvD_BwE
Quote from: DavidM on August 17, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Hmmm! Try dropping the front end and see if that doesn't solve your sway problem.
Your Grand Cherokee is probably heavier than my 2013 Nissan Pathfinder which tows my dual axle 16TBS just fine. The 16TBS is at least 500 lbs heavier than yours and the tongue weight is right at 10%. The dual axle helps with sway though.
That is why I am thinking that your sway problem could be more related to how the GC is set up.
David
I'm going to test some F/R height variations tomorrow, before I actually mount the anti sway. I figure that I should get everything as stable as possible before adding it, so I'm not just masking an underlying issue.
Do you recommend 10% over say, 12% tongue weight? People say 10 - 15, so I was kind of shooting for the middle.
Will let you know...
Thanks David : )
Quote from: Capt J-rod on August 17, 2017, 06:58:41 PM
I use a husky centerline on my 21. Is it needed? nope. Is is a good idea? I say yes. It helps a heavy wind, or a sudden lane change. Mine required no holes, however I did put a piece of rubber between the steel and aluminum for corrosion. I also had to notch my plastic propane tank cover to accommodate the brackets. On my sequoia it is no big deal, on my tacoma it makes a huge difference.
https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Husky/HT32218.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKCAjw_dTMBRBHEiwApIzn_JdB5TzRSAJ-2aBdBz6fNG6IR6Hx-QAIcF2QbTqCgIhCZMzB3QP0LxoCc_wQAvD_BwE
Hi Newbie!
The husky was overkill for my 13QBB setup. Sway was the only real issue. I'll let you know how Pro Series anti sway works after I install it on Saturday
: ) S
Before you start drilling holes, Husky makes a clamp-on ball.
Flickr is down right now, but I'll bet if you search this site you can find images of mine, or just Google to find the Husky product.
Edited to add: see posts 13 & 15 in this thread.
Quote from: FastEddieB on August 17, 2017, 10:15:29 PM
Before you start drilling holes, Husky makes a clamp-on ball.
Flickr is down right now, but I'll bet if you search this site you can find images of mine, or just Google to find the Husky product.
Edited to add: see posts 13 & 15 in this thread.
Hi Eddie did you put something like rubber between the steel and aluminum clamp on? Is it necessary? I saw someone mentioning it
Quote from: LivinLite AZ on August 17, 2017, 07:07:12 PM
Quote from: DavidM on August 17, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Hmmm! Try dropping the front end and see if that doesn't solve your sway problem.
Your Grand Cherokee is probably heavier than my 2013 Nissan Pathfinder which tows my dual axle 16TBS just fine. The 16TBS is at least 500 lbs heavier than yours and the tongue weight is right at 10%. The dual axle helps with sway though.
That is why I am thinking that your sway problem could be more related to how the GC is set up.
David
I'm going to test some F/R height variations tomorrow, before I actually mount the anti sway. I figure that I should get everything as stable as possible before adding it, so I'm not just masking an underlying issue.
Do you recommend 10% over say, 12% tongue weight? People say 10 - 15, so I was kind of shooting for the middle.
Will let you know...
Thanks David : )
I think you're on the right track to follow David's thoughts about the effect of the JGC set up. A lifted vehicle is inherently less stable and may make sway worse (especially with a short wheel base)? I would get the JGC as low as you can and still clear the BFG 33s, then get the appropriate drawbar to achieve a level trailer going down the road. Anything over 10% weight on the tongue should be fine, but a bit more may be better in your case (with the lift). Your statement about getting things as good as possible before adding sway control is right on. Do you have good shocks on the JGC? Anything you can do to make the tow vehicle more stable is good.
Quote from: Merlin on August 17, 2017, 11:20:53 PM
Quote from: LivinLite AZ on August 17, 2017, 07:07:12 PM
Quote from: DavidM on August 17, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Hmmm! Try dropping the front end and see if that doesn't solve your sway problem.
Your Grand Cherokee is probably heavier than my 2013 Nissan Pathfinder which tows my dual axle 16TBS just fine. The 16TBS is at least 500 lbs heavier than yours and the tongue weight is right at 10%. The dual axle helps with sway though.
That is why I am thinking that your sway problem could be more related to how the GC is set up.
David
I'm going to test some F/R height variations tomorrow, before I actually mount the anti sway. I figure that I should get everything as stable as possible before adding it, so I'm not just masking an underlying issue.
Do you recommend 10% over say, 12% tongue weight? People say 10 - 15, so I was kind of shooting for the middle.
Will let you know...
Thanks David : )
I think you're on the right track to follow David's thoughts about the effect of the JGC set up. A lifted vehicle is inherently less stable and may make sway worse (especially with a short wheel base)? I would get the JGC as low as you can and still clear the BFG 33s, then get the appropriate drawbar to achieve a level trailer going down the road. Anything over 10% weight on the tongue should be fine, but a bit more may be better in your case (with the lift). Your statement about getting things as good as possible before adding sway control is right on. Do you have good shocks on the JGC? Anything you can do to make the tow vehicle more stable is good.
Hi Merlin.
Thanks for your response. I can deflate my air springs and come down 3" front and/or rear. This still leaves me with 3" lift over stock. I have trimmed the front bumper and adjusted my JKS control arms so the 33x10.5 BFGs don't rub when aired down unless I get near near full steering lock or heavily articulate the suspension. 2" wheel spacers help too.
Regarding shocks, I have adjustable Rancho RS 9000s. I usually leave them in their softest setting. But you lead me to wonder if firming up the rear shocks when towing might benefit stability. What say you? I can also play with toe and caster settings (it is a little castery at the moment), but I don't know how much influence this has on sway.
As far as the drawbar, I'm currently using a 5" drop but I have a 2" drop version laying around somewhere I think.
With my 13QBB loaded to 2900ish pounds, my tongue weight is about 320 (not sure how accurate this bathroom scale is though), so 11%. Would you recommend the I try to get that number up closer to 380 (13%) ? My factory specs for the 13QBB say "Hitch Weight 285 lb", which I am slightly over, but I read somewhere (can't find it now) that the max is like 360 lb. What is my ideal target? I can always redistribute weight inside the trailer, and can also store more heavy items in the Jeep. Or whatever helps even things out to be optimal.
Thanks again for the insight.
S
Quote from: Paul on August 17, 2017, 10:43:22 PM
Quote from: FastEddieB on August 17, 2017, 10:15:29 PM
Before you start drilling holes, Husky makes a clamp-on ball.
Flickr is down right now, but I'll bet if you search this site you can find images of mine, or just Google to find the Husky product.
Edited to add: see posts 13 & 15 in this thread.
Hi Eddie did you put something like rubber between the steel and aluminum clamp on? Is it necessary? I saw someone mentioning it
Hello Paul and Eddie
I had the Husky Centerline TS - no drilling required. But the rear bar brackets were way too tall for my 13QBB's 3" frame. There was 3" of daylight between the bottom of the frame and the top of the lower bracket bolt in its highest setting. Etrailer confirmed my concerns about crushing my frame if tightened to spec. They recommended the Pro Series 83660 Sway Control Bar instead, since I really only wanted to address sway, not WD.
My concern with drilling arose when I received the Pro Series 83660 and saw that it called for me to drill six 3/8" holes in the side of the frame to mount their bracket. Not going to do that, so I just ordered a compatible no drill bracket here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VASX0A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It will be here on Saturday and I'll let you know how that goes.
As far as isolating the dissimilar metals, rubber should work fine, but I opted for some 3" 5 mil PVC tape instead.
: ) S
Any advice you get from me on the suspension set up is worth what it costs you, but here goes.....
The adjustable shocks give you an important variable to play with. I suggest you do try a setting other than the softest when towing. Perhaps those 9000s aren't controlling the extra weight well enough on soft.
Don't get too hung on small changes in tongue weight. That will change a lot anyway as you vary loads for different trips. Like sometimes you have water and sometimes you won't. Just be sure it's at least 10% and don't guess; get the rig weighed. Others on here have been surprised at the weights they are hauling around and some have exceeded the cargo capacity of their tow vehicle with surprisingly high tongue weights. For example, the advertised tongue weight on my camper is less than 300 lbs, but going down the road I'm well over 400 lbs and have been over 500 lbs in some situations.
If by "castery" on your JGC alignment you mean positive caster, that's probably a good thing. Alignment on a lifted vehicle is complex and definitely affects stability. I wouldn't go so far as to say you shouldn't tow with a lifted vehicle, but there will be consequences in stability. Toe can affect tracking and the wheel spacers have an affect on suspension geometry; they are not just for clearance. I'm scared of offering any specific advice on alignment because of it's role in safety. I suggest you get a good alignment shop involved and get the JGC set up as close to OEM alignment specs as possible for starters and go from there.
3" over stock for the lift is a lot and you may even need more than the 5" inch drop drawbar to get the trailer level. If the trailer front is higher than the rear going down the road, it will be wiggly.
You'll get there! You just have an extra challenge by starting with a heavily modified JGC. That Jeep is at home on the rocks, but will need some TLC to be a good QBB tow vehicle.
And, as aside, Jeeps rock. My first vehicle was a '46 CJ2A.
I used rubber sheeting in order to have something between the steel and the aluminum. I also cut down the mounting plate to allow a slightly longer travel for the sway control.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4389/36601953016_1a009bc66c_z.jpg)
Quote from: FastEddieB on August 18, 2017, 11:12:31 AM
I used rubber sheeting in order to have something between the steel and the aluminum. I also cut down the mounting plate to allow a slightly longer travel for the sway control.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4389/36601953016_1a009bc66c_z.jpg)
Hi Eddie.
Your friction unit looks the same design as the one I got, except for the no drill bracket. Seems like the Pro Series is a Husky clone. When my Eaz-Lift 48385 Sway Control Adapter bracket arrives tomorrow I'll see how everything lines up and consider if the mounting plate could benefit from being cut down as you did. The description says it's intended for use on 3" frames and won't fit 4" frames, so hopefully it's already optimized for my application out of the box.
The Pro Series description said "Does Not Allow Backing Up". Is that stated because it would get damaged in a jack knife situation. Would I need to pull the pins and remove the whole bar, or just move the lever to the off position when maneuvering in reverse?
The more I think about it, I'm leaning towards your rubber sheet isolation method. Not only is it more robust than the PVC tape, but it should add a superior level of positional grip to the bracket, as some reviewers complained that their bracket moved out of position.
Thanks for the inspiration!
: ) S
I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to no ill effect. But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.
I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.
Quote from: FastEddieB on August 18, 2017, 02:35:23 PM
I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to know ill effect. But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.
I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.
Thanks for the valued hands on info. Are you pleased with its anti sway performance, and more importantly would you buy another one next time all things being equal?
Quote from: LivinLite AZ on August 18, 2017, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: FastEddieB on August 18, 2017, 02:35:23 PM
I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to know ill effect. But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.
I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.
Thanks for the valued hands on info. Are you pleased with its anti sway performance, and more importantly would you buy another one next time all things being equal?
Hi FastEddie.
I have just test fit the new no drill friction sway control bracket. Fits perfect with my bicycle inner tube sourced rubber isolator (thanks for the inspiration). However, due to a 1" clearance issue with the propane tank tray as shown in my photos, I think I have three options:
1. Fill the old tray mounting screw holes with sealant and tap in the screws 1" further back (which leaves the propane tanks are nearly touching the battery box)
2. Cut a notch in the tank tray to accommodate the edge of the bracket and bolt (then paint the exposed cut metal to protect from rust)
3. Just move the the sway control mounting bracket forward 1" to avoid plans one and two above altogether. The instructions say 24" on center from coupler to sway control ball, but is reducing that to 23" (or even 22.5) going to cause problems? Not sure if this suggested measurement is in place to optimize anti sway effectiveness, or to protect the mechanism itself from bottoming out, in sharp turns for example.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
: ) S
Quote from: LivinLite AZ on August 20, 2017, 08:10:31 PM
Quote from: LivinLite AZ on August 18, 2017, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: FastEddieB on August 18, 2017, 02:35:23 PM
I've heard the same warning about backing up with the sway control in place. I've done it numerous times to know ill effect. But if I remember I try to disconnect it from the hitch before backing and secure it with a tarp bungee I keep on the propane tank mount to hold it out of the way.
I would recommend backing up and intentionally getting into jackknife territory with someone watching. That will give you an idea of how far you can go without it hitting - on my setup it's pretty far.
Thanks for the valued hands on info. Are you pleased with its anti sway performance, and more importantly would you buy another one next time all things being equal?
Hi FastEddie.
I have just test fit the new no drill friction sway control bracket. Fits perfect with my bicycle inner tube sourced rubber isolator (thanks for the inspiration). However, due to a 1" clearance issue with the propane tank tray as shown in my photos, I think I have three options:
1. Fill the old tray mounting screw holes with sealant and tap in the screws 1" further back (which leaves the propane tanks are nearly touching the battery box)
2. Cut a notch in the tank tray to accommodate the edge of the bracket and bolt (then paint the exposed cut metal to protect from rust)
3. Just move the the sway control mounting bracket forward 1" to avoid plans one and two above altogether. The instructions say 24" on center from coupler to sway control ball, but is reducing that to 23" (or even 22.5) going to cause problems? Not sure if this suggested measurement is in place to optimize anti sway effectiveness, or to protect the mechanism itself from bottoming out, in sharp turns for example.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
: ) S
OK. Talked to the manufacturer and was told that the 24" ball to ball measurement is in place to prevent bottoming/topping out, as I suspected. So I am going to move it forward and inch and visually inspect its functional envelope under normal turning circumstances (left and right turns around town). I will also promise myself to remember to disconnect the friction bar when making tight maneuvers or off roading. Luckily, removal and reattachment is childs play with this unit - just two QR pins hold it in place, only one of which actually needs to be disconnected when needed : )
Quote from: Merlin on August 18, 2017, 09:28:51 AM
Any advice you get from me on the suspension set up is worth what it costs you, but here goes.....
The adjustable shocks give you an important variable to play with. I suggest you do try a setting other than the softest when towing. Perhaps those 9000s aren't controlling the extra weight well enough on soft.
Don't get too hung on small changes in tongue weight. That will change a lot anyway as you vary loads for different trips. Like sometimes you have water and sometimes you won't. Just be sure it's at least 10% and don't guess; get the rig weighed. Others on here have been surprised at the weights they are hauling around and some have exceeded the cargo capacity of their tow vehicle with surprisingly high tongue weights. For example, the advertised tongue weight on my camper is less than 300 lbs, but going down the road I'm well over 400 lbs and have been over 500 lbs in some situations.
If by "castery" on your JGC alignment you mean positive caster, that's probably a good thing. Alignment on a lifted vehicle is complex and definitely affects stability. I wouldn't go so far as to say you shouldn't tow with a lifted vehicle, but there will be consequences in stability. Toe can affect tracking and the wheel spacers have an affect on suspension geometry; they are not just for clearance. I'm scared of offering any specific advice on alignment because of it's role in safety. I suggest you get a good alignment shop involved and get the JGC set up as close to OEM alignment specs as possible for starters and go from there.
3" over stock for the lift is a lot and you may even need more than the 5" inch drop drawbar to get the trailer level. If the trailer front is higher than the rear going down the road, it will be wiggly.
You'll get there! You just have an extra challenge by starting with a heavily modified JGC. That Jeep is at home on the rocks, but will need some TLC to be a good QBB tow vehicle.
And, as aside, Jeeps rock. My first vehicle was a '46 CJ2A.
Hey Merlin.
I'm happy to report that during our eight trip through Utah and Colorado, sway was never and issue (writeup here: https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=688.new#new ). With my front suspension lowered by just about 2" and the installation of our Reese Friction Sway Control bar, we tracked straight and true. We had plenty of opportunities to prove its worth.
Headwinds and side winds were fierce on one particular leg approaching and leaving Moab, with gusts up to at least 60mph in driving rain. We were giddy at the immediate effect that these frontal wind blasts inflicted (sometimes losing 10mph in an instant going uphill), but pleasantly astonished at the rock steady performance of our Reese Friction Sway Control bar through the intense side gusts. With this device, passing or being passed by semis was a non issue.
I did try a leg with the rear RS9000 shock valves firmed up to 3 out of 10, but the ride suffered noticeably and I went back to the softest setting for the duration. I am so glad that neither of the full bore WDH/anti sway solutions I purchased (Husky Centerline, and Eaz-Lift 48058) were compatible with my tiny 3" frame rails. Otherwise I would have been saddled with 100lb of unnecessary WD hitch and lost a ton of ground clearance as well. I can't say enough about the Reese Friction Sway Control. Light weight, compact, and 100% effective!
: ) S