Calcium battery

[Sylvain]

Hello again everyone,
It's time to replace the battery in our CL.  We plan on doing some boondocking this year so we need a good battery bank.  Last week I went to the local battery store looking for a replacement lead acid battery.  The guy introduced me to calcium batteries (which I believe are considered lead acid batteries).  The price was pretty good for a group 27-105ah.  The guy said that they do not require water level maintenance and they do not self discharge as fast as standard lead acid batteries.  So the question is, is a calcium battery a good choice to replace our dead battery?

Thanks again!

[MitchB]

No experience in them whatsoever but I'd check what the charging profile is so that you know if you have to make modifications on that front.

[DavidM]

I haven't heard of a calcium battery. Sounds a bit like an Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) battery. And 105 Ah from a Group 27 is way too much. More like 70-80 Ahs from the Group 27s I have seen.

I just bought a Renogy Group 31, 100 Ah AGM for my 16TBS. Will report in a month or so how I like it.

David

[Sylvain]

Thanks Mitch and David.

David the calcium batteries are not AGM.  They really are flooded lead acid batteries.  I really can't find much information about them being used by rv'ers.  They say you don't have to adjust the water level but still they can off gas a little bit.  Maybe I should stick to the standard lead acid.  They offer a two year warranty.

Sylvain

[Sylvain]

I just found this.

Battery Types: Flooded lead acid batteries are either lead calcium "maintenance free" types, or lead antimony -- the more traditional type that has caps and to which you need to add water periodically. Most deep cycle batteries are lead antimony, since the "maintenance free" types (lead calcium) are sealed, but have low tolerance for "deep" discharge (below 40-50%). Lead antimony has higher tolerance for deep discharge, but they self-discharge faster. On balance, lead antimony is better suited for RVs, and true deep cycle batteries are of this type.

[Merlin]

I just found this.

Battery Types: Flooded lead acid batteries are either lead calcium "maintenance free" types, or lead antimony -- the more traditional type that has caps and to which you need to add water periodically. Most deep cycle batteries are lead antimony, since the "maintenance free" types (lead calcium) are sealed, but have low tolerance for "deep" discharge (below 40-50%). Lead antimony has higher tolerance for deep discharge, but they self-discharge faster. On balance, lead antimony is better suited for RVs, and true deep cycle batteries are of this type.

Hmmm......be careful with what you find on the Internet, or from sales staff at battery stores. Not much of the statement above makes sense. Since I didn't know about lead-acid batteries with calcium instead of antimony chemistry, I spent some time looking up information too. My conclusion was the same as you a couple of posts ago; don't go that route unless you can ensure the charging system you are using is compatible with the bulk-absorption-float parameters required.

Speaking of which, you've mentioned some solar charging. How does that figure into your battery choice and capacity? What are you using for a charge controller. You may have posted that info before, but it's relevant to batteries for sure.

[Sylvain]

Thanks for your input Merlin.  I really think I'm going to stick with a lead acid battery.  We do have 185W of solar installed on the roof connected to a mppt controller that can charge any lead acid battery but no lithium.  They had a groupd 31 (130ah) lead acid battery at the local store.  I'm pretty sure it should be enough for our needs.  They offer a two year warranty on that battery as well.

[Merlin]

Sounds like a good match, to use a group 31 lead-acid with 185W of panels. There are different ways to report out amp-hours of battery capacity and I suspect that battery store is using a low discharge rate that maximizes the amp-hour number. Both the Group 27 you mentioned previously and the Group 31 amp-hours at that store are way, way over normal. I'll bet that at the standard 20 hour discharge rate the Group 31 will be more like 100 or maybe as much as 110 amp-hours. This is relevant because you normally don't want to discharge a battery more than 50%. So, you'll likely have about 50 amp-hours of power available overnight, which is plenty, but not crazy plenty. I'm looking forward to you adventure posts of boon docking!

[Powder Hounds]

I would like to know who is going to be the test subject with Trojan's ' new ' Trillium battery. TR 12.8 110. It can be charged at the same profile as an AGM battery but is considered a Lio-ion unit. Having to change your solar controller to a lithium capable unit would not be required. It does sound appealing.

[Sylvain]

Sounds like a good match, to use a group 31 lead-acid with 185W of panels. There are different ways to report out amp-hours of battery capacity and I suspect that battery store is using a low discharge rate that maximizes the amp-hour number. Both the Group 27 you mentioned previously and the Group 31 amp-hours at that store are way, way over normal. I'll bet that at the standard 20 hour discharge rate the Group 31 will be more like 100 or maybe as much as 110 amp-hours. This is relevant because you normally don't want to discharge a battery more than 50%. So, you'll likely have about 50 amp-hours of power available overnight, which is plenty, but not crazy plenty. I'm looking forward to you adventure posts of boon docking!

That's what I thought too.  It seemed high but I had a look at their website and they seem to rate it to 130ah for the 20hrs discharge rate.  I'm not sure what to think about that. Have a look here.

https://www.rollsbattery.com/battery/s12-31/

[Merlin]

Sounds like a good match, to use a group 31 lead-acid with 185W of panels. There are different ways to report out amp-hours of battery capacity and I suspect that battery store is using a low discharge rate that maximizes the amp-hour number. Both the Group 27 you mentioned previously and the Group 31 amp-hours at that store are way, way over normal. I'll bet that at the standard 20 hour discharge rate the Group 31 will be more like 100 or maybe as much as 110 amp-hours. This is relevant because you normally don't want to discharge a battery more than 50%. So, you'll likely have about 50 amp-hours of power available overnight, which is plenty, but not crazy plenty. I'm looking forward to you adventure posts of boon docking!

That's what thought too.  It seemed high but I had a look at their website and they seem to rate it to 130ah for the 20hrs discharge rate.  I'm not sure what to think about that. Have a look here.

https://www.rollsbattery.com/battery/s12-31/

Ah, I did not realize you were considering the gold standard of lead-acid batteries. Go for it. Them are good ones.........

[Merlin]

I would like to know who is going to be the test subject with Trojan's ' new ' Trillium battery. TR 12.8 110. It can be charged at the same profile as an AGM battery but is considered a Lio-ion unit. Having to change your solar controller to a lithium capable unit would not be required. It does sound appealing.

Ok so I'm impressed. One of the few lithium batteries that can accept any charge below 32F. It's only 5 amps below freezing (F), but that's 5 amps more than others. I have not found a price yet. Any idea what these sell for? BTW, most lithium batteries claim to work fine with an AGM charge profile, but pretty much all of them like a lithium profile with custom settings even better!

[Powder Hounds]

Solar companies here sell them for around  $1500.00 CAD, your probably around $1050.00 US. Just noticed from the data sheet that they have their own electronic status indicator. 

[Sylvain]

Sounds like a good match, to use a group 31 lead-acid with 185W of panels. There are different ways to report out amp-hours of battery capacity and I suspect that battery store is using a low discharge rate that maximizes the amp-hour number. Both the Group 27 you mentioned previously and the Group 31 amp-hours at that store are way, way over normal. I'll bet that at the standard 20 hour discharge rate the Group 31 will be more like 100 or maybe as much as 110 amp-hours. This is relevant because you normally don't want to discharge a battery more than 50%. So, you'll likely have about 50 amp-hours of power available overnight, which is plenty, but not crazy plenty. I'm looking forward to you adventure posts of boon docking!

That's what thought too.  It seemed high but I had a look at their website and they seem to rate it to 130ah for the 20hrs discharge rate.  I'm not sure what to think about that. Have a look here.

https://www.rollsbattery.com/battery/s12-31/

Ah, I did not realize you were considering the gold standard of lead-acid batteries. Go for it. Them are good ones.........

Thanks!  I didn't know they are that good!!

[Sylvain]

I would like to know who is going to be the test subject with Trojan's ' new ' Trillium battery. TR 12.8 110. It can be charged at the same profile as an AGM battery but is considered a Lio-ion unit. Having to change your solar controller to a lithium capable unit would not be required. It does sound appealing.

It looks like a very interesting product.