Thinking of moving to a motorhome

[DavidM]

Hmmm! Never heard of a diesel with a throttle. Must take some clever coordination of the fuel injection with the throttle plate to keep them in sync. Or maybe the throttle plate only closes on deceleration- kind of a built in Jake brake.

So if the Ford 3.2 diesel with throttle was offered in all Transits until 2020 will have to look into that further. We would be buying used anyway.

Your exhaust temp sensor experience is what I was hoping with the Ford- easier maintenance and cheaper parts than the Mercedes. Mercedes diesels seem to be made for people with money who don't mind spending it.

Thanks, David

[ADR]

I wanted a Sprinter for years before I bought a Transit-  but every time I started reading up on them I got scared away by extremely high repair costs.    Not only that- assuming the money didn't concern you, in some places you can be 500+ miles from a dealer that works on them!  Not every Mercedes dealer will.   
Of course having a motorhome of any brand can be a problem- some dealers won't work on motorhomes if you have a warranty issue- my late father was into motorhomes and of the 5 Ford dealers in our area only one would touch a motorhome.

My grandson and I were at Glacier NP and were talking to a couple across from our site with a Sprinter based motorhome-   they had a leak in the rear axle and spents days and thousands of dollars getting it fixed.    They got to Glacier and it was again leaking- they were leaving the next day to go back to the dealer- which was hundreds of miles away. IIRC it was a 2 day drive.

I'd be all over another Transit diesel if it wasn't for all the emissions crap on them now- some have had major problems with the Ford Transit diesel- but in most cases it is the added on emissions stuff that is the problem- the 3.2 is a solid engine IMO- used all over in tons of Ford trucks and even used in some light rail locomotives.   Will be interesting to see how the 2.0 fares- it also is used elsewhere in large numbers.

[Merlin]

The Fuse looks interesting. These class C are not Inexpensive!

https://www.mhs2go.com/inv/2017-Winnebago-Fuse-23T-36983/

[DavidM]

I do like the Fuse models for the most part. The one Merlin referenced has the nice side queen bed slide out. But that forward living area is the pits with the forward facing bench seat. But I would hope that it is fairly easily fixed: pull out that horrible bench seat and replace it with a nice captain's chair. The only other negative is very limited galley prep space.

The other model, the 24A has twin beds, but they really intrude on your living space whereas the 24T that Merlin posted, somewhat hides the bed.

So if I can deal with the galley prep area to Joan's satisfaction, maybe with a flip up counter extension and remove the bench seat, the model Merlin referenced is my favorite so far.

David

[Merlin]

I'm going to run over to Grand Rapids this week to check out one of the new electric Audis. I'll stop by the Fuse dealership and pick that one up for you. I have a very modest finders fee of only $10K. 

[DavidM]

Wow, such a deal. For $125,000 and your $10,000 finders fee I can have a new Fuse motor home. I will have to sleep on that offer.

David

[Scout]

We have 6 Sprinter RV chases used for command vehicles. The first 50K all good except for the fact that only the Mercedes dealer can work on the blue tec and are required to perform the PM at the dealer in order to keep the warranty. Once they get up to 100,000K they spend more time in the shop than on the road. The vans themselves have the emergency response package and the brakes are fine after multiple emergency responses each day. Day after day with no issues. We are switching to the transit on the next order as we only get 5-6 few years out of the sprinters before they are junk. They do get very hard use, but the mechanics in our shop hate them. For what it's worth. I still think they look cool.
How about an earth roamer?

[Chappy133]

David,

When I was having my trailer inspected for it's annual sticker, a PA requirement for any trailer over 1000 bs, the mechanics in the shop all had diesel TVs and owned trailers.  I told the mechanic I was considering getting a diesel TV.  He advised me against diesel since the annual servicing cost for him, he does not pay labour, was close to $500.00+ per year for filters and supplies.  Also included in that advise was the low weight of the 16 TBS.

Just putting this out there to include the cost of servicing of your diesel into your decision making rubric.

My trailer vs. RV thoughts are along the line of Merlin's.  Understand that everyone has different requirements and it is what works best for you is what is important.

Good luck and keep us informed of your decision,   

Chuck 

[DavidM]

Chappy, thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, I am aware that despite popular opinions on the subject, modern diesels do require more maintenance than gassers, both routine and for specific failures.

Routine diesel maintenance is more because you have oil changes with almost twice as much oil, fuel filter changes and DEF, diesel exhaust fluid addition.

Then there are system failures. A simple DEF sensor failure can cost a thousand $ to fix. Even more for the particulate filter regeneration system. Gasoline engines have neither. And at least for Mercedes Sprinter diesel failures a Sprinter dealer is the only one who can do this and not all Mercedes dealers are Sprinter qualified, so it gets expensive.

But diesel is more fuel efficient, maybe 20% better than gassers. But diesel fuel costs more at the pump, between 15-25% more from my observations.

David

[MitchB]

We've been thinking of Class C's also so yesterday took a trip to local RV place to look around. This dealer sells Forest River, Coachmen Leprechaun and Chateau RV's.  The criteria I gave to the sales rep was reasonably well built, 24ish foot in size, walk around bed or 2 twin beds, priced between $70k and $110k.  I also made it clear that we weren't in buying mode and only mildly interested. 

We saw three units, a Leprechaun 260DS, a Leprechaun 210RS and a FR Forester 2401wsd.  The Leprechauns were on Chevy 4500 chassis, the Forester on a Mercedes Sprinter.  All were new.

Without going into boring detail the things that stuck out the most were the huge difference a big slide makes in living space.  I'm not really a slide fan because it's just something else mechanical to keep up on but the benefit is tremendous. The smaller Leprechaun had only a bedroom slide and it wasn't nearly as roomy feeling.  The other two had full side slides.  The other item I focused on was fit and finish.  The Leprechauns really seemed to have much better fit and finish then the Forester, I had expected it to be the other way around.     

Ultimately I left leaning towards the Coachmen even though the 260 was bigger then I want to drive and the 210 was too small on the inside.  They do make a 230FS that seems to fit the bill though they didn't have one on the lot.

I have the same chassis dilemma, i.e. diesel vs gas, Ford E-450 or Transit vs. Chevy 4500. I don't know how to reconcile that since I have no experience with any of them.

Anywho, just some thoughts based on recent activity, keep us informed of your thinking, I for one, am interested in your observations.

Mitch

[DavidM]

Hi Mitch:

Thanks for your comments. I have seen a couple of Winnebago Views, done tons of internet browsing of RVs and reading comments on chassis and engines. We are not going to buy for another year but it will probably be a used View with the Mercedes chassis and Bluetec diesel. New is probably north of $125,000 and used can be had for half of that.

The View is large enough to give us a nice living space inside and with the Sprinters 170" wheelbase, manages the View's 25 1/2' length well. It should also be maneuverable enough to get into tight campsites and navigate parking areas.

My only concern is the diesel engine. It does produce enough power with 188 hp and 325 ft lbs of low speed torque and gets great fuel mileage- 15-16 mpg. There have been a few reports of sensor failure that results in engine shutdown and what might be a long tow to a Mercedes Bluetec qualified mechanic. That failure which is caused by the DEF level sensor failing can be solved by always keeping the DEF container half full or more. The sensor is exposed to dry DEF when it gets too low and often corrodes and fails.

The Ford 3.2 diesel doesn't have enough customers out there to have reported similar failures, but I have no doubt that they exist. And there are no doubts in my mind that diesels have more failures than gassers and require more maintenance.

But all in all I think I can live with the maintenance and reliability of the Mercedes diesel for the other advantages I see in the Winnie View.

Did any of the RVs you looked at use DC compressor fridges? That brings up another series of issues, but are relatively easily resolved.

David

[MitchB]

None of them had a DC compressor fridge although that would be a nice upgrade.  We're still pretty far off timewise on a purchase but I keep looking.  There's so much out there and some is good and some is utter crap, but that mid-level (and therefore price) stuff seems harder to find. I'll take a gander at the View.

[DavidM]

Not sure what is driving this change, but most new Views come with DC compressor fridges, not absorption. I have extensive  history with DC compressor fridges on boats and they mostly work quite well. But the boating industry has figured out how to deal with the DC that they require and the RV industry has not.

A DC compressor fridge adds 50-100 Amp hours to your DC usage each day. That is 5-10 times what we use on our CL. So batteries and charging sources need to be better. Unfortunately the RV industry installs minimal batteries (although some offer Li Ion options for $5,000!!!). And the ubiquitous converter installed in most RVs, maybe including ours is the Progressive Dynamics 9245.

The PD9245, by all acounts is not a three step charger and due to inadequate wire size can never supply more than about 10A to your batteries. For those who dry camp with a DC compressor fridge it is essential that you upgrade your PD9245 to a real three step charger like the IOTA and triple the wire size to limit voltage drop. This is so you can recharge your batteries with a portable generator. If you don't want to do that, then increase your battery capacity, a lot.

David

[charliem]

David,         
Maybe the RV industry hasn't adopted the DC fridge because we don't have the old Atomic 6 to recharge the batteries, or the unlimited sun of the open water. 50-100 AH a day is a bunch. Good luck in your search and keep up the conversation with Mitch. Very informative.

[MitchB]

As I thought about it more the unit's I looked at may have had 12 Volt compressor fridges.  I didn't ask but I vaguely recall one of them having a sticker on the fridge door that said 12v.  At the time I dismissed it because I don't usually think about compressor models but now it makes more sense. 

I'm not sure how I feel about them, on one hand the ability to cool is really nice but as you pointed out 50-100 Amp hours/day is a whole lot more then I have to think about now.

The View is a nice layout, my wife and I were having trouble finding a layout that met both of our requirements/concerns but the View ticked all the boxes.   Unfortunately the closest one for me to look at is 3 hours away, well, new one anyway.