110V ONLY in my 8.5 16

[hackpirate]

Greetings, I'm a new member on this forum with a question on my 2011 Basecamp 8516.

The refrigerator supplied by Livin Lite is a 110V ONLY. The rear of the unit faces into the front storage compartment so there is no outside ventilation to operate on LP so thus the 110V only. It could operate on 12V if a 110V / 12V frig was offered but I'm guessing that 12V is not an option without including LP. But it's a pain when boondocking to have to operate a genny just to run the frig.

Are there any owners out there that found a better option without buying a unit with LP and permanently disabling the LP function? I know there must not be options otherwise LL would have been aware of such thing. I bought this camper used and of course did not discover the 110 only thing until the first time out. My wife was thrilled....not. This is quite the little rig and was about ready to sell it and upgrade until I discovered the news about the demise of LL. I don't think I could ever find another built like this one. Hey, thank you for any advice offered. Or just telling me that I am SOL!

Steve

[Steve Sanders]

Steve,

Unless you want to have a significant battery bank, I don't think the 12v option is going to be very helpful. Since a 12v refrigerator will have to either run a freon compressor or heat an absorption cooler, it's going to drain a battery pretty quickly.

I don't know why you would want to permanently disable a propane burner in either case, if you don't want propane hooked up to it, just don't hook it up. Permanently disabling that feature isn't necessary.

What about other ventilation options? The flame on an absorption cooling refrigerator is roughly equal to a match flame. A personal computer power supply or even CPU cooling fan would provide enough air flow. However, a solution that could simply let the heat rise out of a vent would be better.

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[DavidM]

I suspect that you have a compressor based fridge and not an absorption type. Absorption types can run on 12V, 120V or propane but all require a ventilation path.

Compressor based units don't really have to have a ventilation path, just a place to exhaust heat into, like an adjacent cabinet.

Your 120V unit probably uses less energy to run than an absorption unit running on 120V. It might even be efficient enough to run on 12V if you power the unit through a 12V to 120V inverter. It probably will take 3-4 amps DC to produce the required amperage in AC to run the unit. That much power will quickly drain your battery. A typical single 12V battery would only last 24 hours until it got to the 50% discharged point which is all you want to do for best life.

If you were to upgrade to two 6V golf cart batteries wired in series, you could probably go three days.

If you are interested in the inverter installation, post your interest and we can talk about how to install one.

David

[Merlin]

DavidM is offering some good advice. I would add another possibility. There are excellent, efficient 12/120 volt portable refrigerators available from companies like Arb, Engel, and Dometic. They are very efficient, well-insulated compressor-type refrigerators that run on what I would call "native" 12VDC. Some can be run with 120VAC, but have a built in converter to provide 12VDC to the fridge. Since they are designed for 12V, they use very little power when operating off a battery. I would caution, however, that to get efficiency, you have to buy a good one costing several hundred dollars. A cheap $99 Coleman is going to kill a battery fast and not be very cool.

As an example, I have a Dometic 40 quart portable refrigerator that has run fine for 3 days in summer weather without taxing a group 31 deep cycle battery. Somewhere I have the amp draw, but I can't find it right now.

Perhaps you can find a similar one that would fit in the space provided in your Quicksilver?

https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-CF-040AC110-Portable-Freezer-Refrigerator/dp/B0030G4VBA

[DavidM]

Merlin's post above gave me another idea. It is only useful for an electrical tinkerer like me (and Merlin).

Your existing fridge probably has a Danfoss compressor. Dometic used them in marine fridges that can only use compressor types because absorption types require the unit to be fairly level to work and sailboats and many powerboats are rarely level. The portable Engel unit uses a Danfoss compressor.

That compressor has 12V input terminals that in your case are fed from a 120V AC/12V DC internal converter. It is kind of silly to use an inverter to go from 12 to 120 and then back to 12 for the fridge compressor. You should be able to get to the compressor, hook up to the 12V terminals and then with a double pole double throw switch, select 12V  from your trailer's DC system or 12V from the internal 120V converter. All it takes is a switch and some wire.

If you want to do this check the data for that model number and see if it has a Danfoss compressor. Or pull the fridge out and look inside. The Danfoss compressor should be labeled as such.

David

[hackpirate]

Holy crimenee, thanks for the responses gentlemen! I don't know half of what you are talking about but hey, I got a good starting point. I will be getting the unit out of storage if the weather stays nice here in SD.

David said...That compressor has 12V input terminals that in your case are fed from a 120V AC/12V DC internal converter. It is kind of silly to use an inverter to go from 12 to 120 and then back to 12 for the fridge compressor. You should be able to get to the compressor, hook up to the 12V terminals and then with a double pole double throw switch, select 12V  from your trailer's DC system or 12V from the internal 120V converter. All it takes is a switch and some wire.[/b][/color]  This is the first thing I will check when I can and it makes the best sense if it's possible.

Merlin said.... There are excellent, efficient 12/120 volt portable refrigerators available from companies like Arb, Engel, and Dometic. They are very efficient, well-insulated compressor-type refrigerators that run on what I would call "native" 12VDC. S I'll be checking for possibilities here pronto.

Steve said....I don't know why you would want to permanently disable a propane burner in either case, if you don't want propane hooked up to it, just don't hook it up. Permanently disabling that feature isn't necessary. Steve, I'm assuming that the propane unvented to the outside would violate some kind of code(s). If for some reason this rig ever ended up with someone that was unaware of this issue then it would be awful. For my purposes propane would be the best option as it is simpler when off the grid and in all my previous rigs the propane consumption was almost unnoticed.

It just seems when LL confronted this issue of a frig off of exterior walls they just punted and stuck a cheapo 110V in there and called it good. If I ditch the cheapo I would certainly like to fill that space with something that actually fits nice.The frontal storage is spacious, especially up high where it's empty, but doing work in there kills my back. But, if I have to lean on some of y'alls electrical design skills I may crawl in and give it a go. Your replies are appreciated.

Thanks, Steve

[Steve Sanders]

Steve,

If there's no propane supply and the connection port on the unit is capped, I don't see how it could possibly be a hazard.

I suspect that LL probably went for the easiest and most affordable solution with the least liability.

I agree that propane is the best solution for off grid refrigeration. I would be looking for a ventilation solution. You're taking about a very small, clean burning flame. It won't produce that much exhaust or heat to vent away.

But then I have little tolerance for excessive codes that try to protect me from myself. My Quicksilver campers do not have anything close to air tight seals and nothing inside that produces fire or CO2, but they are required to have CO2 and smoke detectors (that are mounted about 6 inches above the floor). What possible value can those detectors add??? They meet a legal requirement, but that's all.

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[hackpirate]

Steve,

Beyond venting it there may be other codes prohibiting the installation but I will investigate that as first option.  As soon as I hit enter this will be saved for eternity for the lawyers but my hope is that eternity will be spent where they are elsewhere and maybe the CO detector beeping will be the giveaway of that event. 

Thanks for checking in,
Steve