Update On Our Failed Frame Welds

[Powder Hounds]

We wanted to update our fellow owners on our 21 RBS rig. As some of you know we had many failed welds on our perimeter east west cross members and some supports with no welds at all. We had our unit re-welded while travelling and had made arrangements with our dealer and LL for an inspection/ repairs this spring. We did not have an oppurtunity to have the inspection done sooner as we had booked our winter in southern Arizona.

So, during our return trip home we finnally dropped off our rig at the dealer as per our disscussions. After a few days, our service rep phoned and informed us that we had to make a return trip to completly empty our unit as it was being sent back to the states for an engineering inspection and repairs.  Our dealer is five hours away return trip. For any new owners of any brand of rig, buy local! This is our eight time going to our dealer, includes the sales process and lots of trips for warranty work. We would never buy another rv out of town, the cost and waste of time commuting is adding up.

Now we just wait until the new LL plant takes delivery and completes the process. While the frame is being worked on we also want the fresh water holding tank fixed. The middle fresh water tank support bracket has sagged about three inches and the tank is now deformed and looks like a saggy wet diaper. We easily loose about five to seven gallons of water because the water pump can not access the botton amount. The lag bolts that hold the brackets to the frame have also started to pull through the brackets. This is something that I do not feel responsible for. Three aluminum supports do not work, unless they have started to put smaller fresh tanks on.

In the end we just want what we paid for.

[mojospeople]

Good advice on buying local. I knew I wanted another Livin' Lite and I had seen a couple at far away dealers that I liked but ultimately bought from the dealer 2 hours from home. It is still a pain to be that far away but if your heart is set on a LL you probably won't have many choices for dealers close to home like with many other RV brands. Sorry about all your troubles! I guess I should go crawl around under my camper now.

[Merlin]

What a sad saga. I sure hope they get the repairs done quickly and well. I'm taking mine to a local welding shop that knows how to work with aluminum for complete inspection of welds next month. If they find anything I'll have them fix it because I have no interest in working with my original selling dealer.

Post back with updated info on what LL does. Lots of members are interested! 

[Paul]

Thank you for keeping us updated! My dealer is 10 hour one way. I feel lucky I didn't had to go back there so far! There is a new LL dealer that is like one hour away. If I buy a new LL I'll buy it from there instead! Good luck with the repairs and keep us updated!

[DavidM]

I worked my entire career in the heavy construction industry. I am not a welder or a welding engineer, but I am an engineer and have dealt with a number of welding issues in my career.

The last place I would go for frame repairs s my dealer. I am not sure that the LL factory would be a good choice either. When the factory welds the aluminum frame, it is laid out in the open and totally accessible. Repairing welds from underneath the trailer is a different skill and may take adding a reinforcing gusset to compensate for places the welder can't reach.

Find a welding shop in your area that knows how to weld aluminum. It takes a different type of welder and welding machine to weld aluminum than steel. You need a tungsten inert gas (TIG) welding machine and someone who knows how to use it.

Ask the shop what kind of aluminum welding projects they have done recently and talk to those customers. You can't just weld aluminum one day and six weeks later do another one. It takes routine experience to stay proficient.

Find a good shop and pay them to do it right. Talk to the factory about reimbursing you first. I suspect that in almost all cases, LL will reimburse you for having a local shop do the repairs.

A related question is should you take your LL to a shop for inspection. I would only do that if I was a non DIY and couldn't get underneath and see for myself. Most cracks will be fairly evident. You run the risk of a shop saying that the welds look funky (and some of mine do but are not cracked) and then paying for having what may be a perfectly good but unsightly weld repaired.

And finally what is the risk and what happens when welds fail? No one that I recall has reported any structural impairment (frame sagging) due to failed welds. The aluminum skin and interior Azdel panels make a pretty good "unibody" structure even without the frame. So, my policy is to take a good look yearly at the frame welds, but don't do anything otherwise proactively. But pay particular attention to the a-frame welds. Those are critical, have a lot of stress on them- near the coupler and at the bend at the front of the body, and don't have the body to help.

David

[leslie]

DavidM, this sounds like a good plan. Thanks for contributing your thoughts. As soon as we move from a gravel surface to a paved surface, sometime next week, I am going under the trailer to take a look. While I am there, I will also see how secure the holding tanks look. I probably have about 10,000 miles on my trailer right now, so this is a good time to check.

[SWBF350]

Check all of my welds the other day, everyone checked out fine on my '15 Bearcat FK16 Toyhauler.

Already fixed my fresh water tank holder brackets, two new ones were made last summer as I had sagging badly in-between the outer support brackets. The same Aluminum Welder who rebuilt my Trailer tongue made up two new support brackets, these two new brackets were installed more in the middle of the H2O tank underside, now all of the left over water can drain out completely and I now get to use all of the fresh water while out camping.
The two other Holding tanks brackets are fine.

[Powder Hounds]

Your repair looks perfect! We can only hope.

I have been informed that our rig will be completed and shipped back to us at the end of this month. The frame repairs are completed and the plant is installing the coupler bolt kit then they will fix the sagging freshwater tank.

I will be sure to post some pics of the completed work once we get things back in order.

Happy camping!

[Powder Hounds]

Well, so far so good. We have had our rig back now for almost three months. The aluminum frame is holding up fine with no visible cracks. As far as I can tell the plant added some new welds but did not really do too much additional frame work. The plant welder came close to burning some of our electrical wiring, but, luckily it burned the loom and just started on the wire coating.  If something does happen with our electrical I know where to look first. As David has mentioned in a prior post the A frame is the most important area and those welds are fine. So, hopfully our frame problems will be a non issue. However, when we do camp on nice soft grass I always crawl under and have a look.

Overall LL did what was required to correct our issues. They changed all our interior LED lights, we had two that always flickered and we finally just removed the bulbs (even with all the shavings removed). Added the extra coupler bolts, fixed our sagging fresh water tank and repaired our furnace.

Thank you LL.

[gbpack]

Very nice! Glad that they took care of you and glad that it's all fixed now. Happy Camping!