WD hitch vs uneven ground

[jamie]

Will be getting a Blue Ox Swaypro installed on a 6x15 toy hauler with an off road lift included. Not having any experience with weight distributing, I've been trying to find as much info as possible and there's 2 questions I can't find answers to, hopefully because they're not big issues.

1- Does an uneven road cause undue stress to the receiver? Some of the places I go can be fairly rough, think logging or fire road. Nothing you'd need 4x4 for and of course these roads can be driven very slowly. I'm hoping ground clearance of the hitch would be an issue before the angle of TV vs trailer forces excessive stress. Disconnecting might not be ok, my Safari only has a weight bearing hitch TW of 200lbs and the 6x15 should be around 500-600. I've never dragged my utility trailer on the same roads, but there will be a fair jump in distance between TV and trailer wheels.

2- Re-hitching in an uneven parking spot. I know the importance of a level surface for the initial installation, does an uneven parking spot cause a lot of headache for re-hitching when it's time to leave camp? Is it safe to say that as long as you have the right amount of links you might just have to work harder, and do you ever have to pull it to a more level spot before you set up the bars?

(and I know the off road kit isn't really for true off roading, just wanted a little extra ground clearance, plus it looks really cool )

[billmoore]

What we've done the few times we've pulled ours into a spot that had some rough terrain is disconnect the sway bars and WD bars first. Typically you'll have a few miles of easy well graded forest road before things start to get rough, and can pull out to disconnect. At the lower speeds on a forest road, you don't need it anyway.

Then reverse procedure when leaving - wait until back on the better roads to hook up again.

[DavidM]

If you use lightweight trunions (600 lbs preferably) and don't pull them up too tight, then you will be ok. Uneven ground is less of a problem than a driveway dip.

Although we don't use a wdh, we have camped in some uneven ground situations and those were no where near as bad as a deep driveway dip. So you might have to pull or pry harder to get the trunions on their mount if the angle is bad, but it should be doable. Or pull forward a few feet to more level ground and then hook them up.

You have a GMC Safari, right. I am more concerned with putting 500-600 lbs on a vehicle which has a hitch weight limit of 200 lbs. A wdh changes the load from dead vertical to a couple- kind of a twisting force on the hitch receiver. I would be ok adding 50% to the tongue weight rating with a WDH, but not tripling it. Also check your receiver load rating. If it isn't a Class III or IV, 2"x2" receiver then it isn't enough.

I suspect that to tow with 600 lbs tongue weight, you will have to cut out the existing Class I or II receiver and weld in a Class III and weld in some more receiver to body supports. This won't be a trivial project.

Fasteddie did this for his Ford Flex and his situation wasn't nearly as bad as yours as he started with a Class III receiver.

David

[billmoore]

David, where are you getting that 200 lb hitch weight limit? A properly equipped Safari can tow over 5000 lbs (5300 to 5500 depending on model year).

I'm guessing the 200 lbs Jamie is referring to is the max weight without a WDH. Most vehicles have two separate hitch ratings - a max with and without WDH.

For example, on my F150, the max without WD is 500 lbs, but with WD it is 1060. With a tow rating over 5000 lbs, the WD spec on his hitch has to be at least 500 lbs...

[DavidM]

Well maybe you are right and the wdh hitch limit is 500 lbs for the Safari, but if so I am surprised that the no wdh limit is 200 lbs. Is it a Class III receiver?

But even so, he is planning to drop 600 lbs on it. And toy haulers almost always have higher than 10% on the tongue unless the back is full of toys.

Just like Fasteddie, I  think he needs to toughen up that hitch attachment. Fastddie was in the same situration- 500 lb hitch and 600 lbs tongue weight. He welded some additional brackets to beef it up.

David

[Pinstriper]

Well maybe you are right and the wdh hitch limit is 500 lbs for the Safari, but if so I am surprised that the no wdh limit is 200 lbs. Is it a Class III receiver?

But even so, he is planning to drop 600 lbs on it. And toy haulers almost always have higher than 10% on the tongue unless the back is full of toys.

Just like Fasteddie, I  think he needs to toughen up that hitch attachment. Fastddie was in the same situration- 500 lb hitch and 600 lbs tongue weight. He welded some additional brackets to beef it up.

David

I could see the 200# figure if you are putting a ball on the bumper, instead of a frame mounted hitch.

That's pretty much all I got.

[jamie]

Thanks for the replies... some good advice. I figure there will be sometimes it will to be de-WD'ed for tighter maneuvers, I'm going to have to be careful. As in weights, I wrote this reply a few days ago and the numbers surprised me until I realized I was adding the tongue weight to the tow vehicle without subtracting it from the trailer. Loaded up the van like it'll be used, extra full size spare, tents, gear and bbq. Found some scales near here that I'll visit soon.

The 200+750lb limits are from the GMC owners manual... it's a class III hitch, overkill for what it is used but chosen because it was WD capable for future use, (class IV will pull way more than the van itself could ever hope to). The low ratio gears can tow 5800lbs, I'm basing everything on the standard 5300lb regular gearing (cargo 2wd). The trailer weighs 3200 dry, TW of 550, I'm estimating that it will never weigh over 5000 (the trailer gvwr 5500lb)... (in the trailer 650lb atv, 40lb kayak, 320lb water, 150lb propane, 150lb batteries, 60lb fuel, 150lb for food and misc junk = 4750lbs that leaves 250lbs for AC and other things not thought of to stay under 5000, all weights are over estimated ex the atv is 620lbs wet). A gvwr of 5600lb, combined of 9500lbs, r axle 3100lb, f axle 2800lb. I still need to weigh it to get a true curb weight, they claim 3850lbs.

I'm sure the weights are in the TV capabilities... these safaris/astros aren't like regular minivans (esp the cargo versions, love how the insurance drops a LOT vs the passenger type), the weights are equal to some 1/2 ton PU's, the biggest problem is they can tow much more than they can safely stop and electric brakes on 2 axles should handle that. I think my issues will be ensuring a 15% tw and not overloading the van itself. Wind as well, the van itself can feel it, that's why I chose sway control. I intend to find a weigh scale, load the trailer as it will be used and decide where the atv will have to go to balance the 15%. A trans cooler for sure, need to upgrade the wiring, tow mirrors and maybe a back up camera for hitching (no spotter, sniff). Still need to decide on a brake controller, fixed or proportional (next post, haha). The hitch was inspected and re-torqued the past spring. I do my own motorcycle and atv maintenance but leave the vehicles to the guys with the air tools and proper lifts.

That's why I was so glad when LL decided to do a last run of the 6x15s. Any TH in the same weight class is pretty much pressboard junk in my opinion, and anything with quality would have to have been shipped to Canada without any dealer support. I've seen a few smaller cargo trailers converted DIY style with living space but they were single axle death traps (road missiles?) with no consideration to weight or balance. A converted cube van was considered but I'd still spend far more than the +30K (I'm almost ashamed to admit cost so far) the LL was and it would still be home-made and only last the lifetime of the mechanicals.

ps - it's funny, I do everything else in metric but can't conceive weight in kg's.

[Pinstriper]

I don't have a backup camera, but Mrs. P is my spotter. I give her a FRS radio with no batteries and send her to the rear of the campsite. I have no idea what she says, and then just back the trailer into place using the mirrors. Easy as pie.

[gbpack]

I don't have a backup camera, but Mrs. P is my spotter. I give her a FRS radio with no batteries and send her to the rear of the campsite. I have no idea what she says, and then just back the trailer into place using the mirrors. Easy as pie.

Hahahaha! Pinstriper you crack me up!

[Merlin]

But, I happen to know that Mrs. P is really smart and knows full well about the lack of batteries. I would love to hear what she says into the radio about Mr. P as he backs into the site.