Aluminum Camper Forum

Quote from: Johnc on July 09, 2018, 09:11:58 PM
We have them on our QS10 and have had good luck with them. We don't have AC and the gizmos do help cool things off a little. The biggest thing we like is that it makes it a little darker in the morning when we try to sleep in a little bit. There is no really easy way to put them on the camper and we are still experimenting with a couple different methods. When we camped at the beach last summer with no trees in the campground we noticed a big difference with the gizmos in place. The other benefit is in the wooded areas with the gizmos keeping the tent clean from leaves and tree sap.

+1 to all of those points.. we took pics of the bungee and clip arrangement once we had it figured out (no intructions included!) so we could replicate the install the next time we set up the camper.

Quote from: Gary M link=topic=936.msg7064#msg7064date=1531318133
I dunno about that. Can't predict the future, but my guess is that it will eventually spread. The repair place I took it to today for the wall issue, said they didn't want to fix the bubbles. All they would be able to do is patch it, and it would be a big ugly eyesore. I'm going to research some more on it later, but right now my main priority is the loose moving wall.

Insofar as the 'loose wall' is concerned, an understanding of how Thor changed the construction method may help visualize what the problem might be... all LL trailers were originally built around what is essentially a welded-together aluminum cage, it got its strength from being a rigid structure despite its light weight. The aluminum floor support beams were welded to the frame rails ontop of which were welded the aluminum flooring planks. Side walls (and roof, if appilcable) were welded to this base, making a solidly built structure onto which floor and wall coverings were applied. I imagine that labor costs for skilled welders to take the time needed to build these was a significant factor in the total cost of those units as each one was essentially hand-made. New laminate floor and walls are made in-house and are all built up on large presses before being used to assemble a new unit. The welded-together aluminum cage is no longer there so floors and walls are screwed, glued and/or bolted together at points using internal panel 'stiffeners' which are just square aluminum tubes placed in the laminate cores before it is pressed. These aluminum tubes aren't welded together or even joined to one another, at least from what I saw in pics, but are just free-floating and held in place by the glue and outer laminate sandwich layers. Bolted up into floors and walls, you can imagine the stresses placed on these internal stiffeners as the camper is subjected to twisting forces and loads. 

Quote from: Paul on July 11, 2018, 11:30:27 AM

Quote from: Gary M on July 11, 2018, 11:08:53 AM
That's how mine are Paul. It's not really noticeable looking down at it, but if I put my head down level with the floor I can see it clearly. I can also feel them with my hand. I read that this happens when they don't wait for the adhesive to become tacky before laying down the vinyl.

Ok so nothing to worry about?

Actually, we learned the 'vinyl' is a 'foamed pvc top layer' which is 'permanently bonded' to a 3mm thin fiberglass top sheet making up the 'appearance layer' of the adzdel and foam composite floor. There is a lengthy discussion of the merits and not so good aspects of the switch to composite flooring in the 2018 models including exact details of its makeup on the 'official' LL forum. You can also Google 'Lamilux' for more info on the product used.

Worked great for our QS 10.0 in Pensacola, Fl campground.. next 'test' will be on Cape San Blas in late July 

KZ/Thor parent company of Livin Lite did indeed substantially change the construction of the QS campers for 2018. Most notably they went from using an all-aluminum plank floor to a composite laminate floor (foam core with fiberglass and adzel upper and lower bonding layers) and now produce both floor and walls on the laminate press. Many other smaller changes were made as well... it is essentially a frame up redesign of the entire line. Search you tube and the livin lite forums for lots of posts on this subject.  Whether these changes are considered good or bad depends largely on your expectations of what QS campers should be.

Quote from: Entropy3XD on August 07, 2017, 10:17:45 PM
Unfortunately she's going to have to stay in the driveway until this gets resolved with Livin' Lite, so looks like we're breaking out the tents for our vacation in two weeks.

I would think that you could at least enjoy the camper in the meantime... I doubt that any 'normal' use would have a bearing on any decision about remediation LL or the dealer would make in regard to your complaint. Once titled it cannot be considered 'new' in any case, whether its been sitting in your driveway or towed to a campground.. just my opinion, ymmv.