Every winter I winterize with pink stuff from WalMart. I run each faucet and the shower until it flows pink, and do the same for the toilet, and have never had a problem.
It's been especially cold this winter in TN, where the trailer is. Last trip up I noticed about 1/2" of brown sludge frozen above the toilet flapper. I heated up some antifreeze in the microwave and poured it into the bowl. But I could not get the foot valve to open the flapper - I applied some force but did not want to break it.
Any clues as to what happened? The black water tank did have "black water" in it. The only thing I can imagine is poop vapors rising, then condensing and then capillary action somehow wicking it up and over the flapper valve and freezing.
Has anyone else seen something similar? It just seems odd and unexpected.
In any case, we may head up tomorrow with warmer weather predicted to check out the situation and will report back what we find.
How full was the black tank? I wonder if it froze and expanded up into the toilet... the vent and toilet pipe are at questionable heights, so it's possible that the vent froze first, then the tank was air tight and the only place to expand was up through the toilet. It's a theory...
Quote from: tinkeringtechie on January 19, 2018, 07:28:47 PM
How full was the black tank?
Unsure. No gauge.
But it's just the two of us for occasional multi-day stays. We meant to do a dump before winterizing, but never got around to it. Next time we'll make more of a point of it - there's a Petro truck stop with a $5 dump station just a few miles away.
All theories remain open!
As an aside, we do regular grey water dumps.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I want a follow up report. :P A frozen toilet with brown sludge in it and a frozen black tank with an unknown amount of (fill in the blank ___). And a frozen black tank discharge valve. What could go wrong? :o
Of the two tanks, one to neglect and one to maintain, you chose exactly wrong.
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Quote from: Pinstriper on January 20, 2018, 12:30:01 AM
Of the two tanks, one to neglect and one to maintain, you chose exactly wrong.
Stipulated.
We just don't mind letting sink and shower water out onto the ground. Poopy stuff not so much.
We're headed up later today. High is forecast to be 51°, so might be a good time to hook up and tow over to the dump station. Maybe pour some warm soapy water in for the trip over. Probably good for the tires to spin a bit after sitting for many months as well. Will check tire pressures, of course.
Here at the trailer and its 60°.
About an inch of clear poo water, now melted, in the toilet.
Got that out. The toilet valve now goes through it's full range of motion, but the flapper valve is seriously stuck closed.
So far I've poured in a few cups of hot water and let it sit. No joy. Got a piece of pvc pipe and tried tapping it with some authority. Still no joy. I'm worried that prying might damage the seal. Right now getting the trailer really warm to see if the heat will radiate in case something (yuck) is frozen under the flapper valve and holding it closed.
Still planning a trip to the dump station tomorrow. Any ideas before then? It would be nice to have indoor plumbing again!
Mopped up the residue and silicone spray got the valve moving. Surprised to see the poo level right beneath the valve - there should not have been that much in there. Can rain or snow sneak in the vent?
I swapped out a roof vent this year. It'd be almost impossible for any significant amount of rain to get in.
I'll bet the answer to the full tank is in this quote from your earlier post!
"Unsure. No gauge. But it's just the two of us for occasional multi-day stays. We meant to do a dump before winterizing, but never got around to it."
And, here's a couple of ideas to help prevent the problem........
SeeLeveL Tank Monitor
https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Garnett-Technologies-Model-709-SeeLeveL-II-p/709-1003.htm
Small Tote-N-Stor Portable Waste Tank
https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Tote-N-Stor-42106-Portable-RV-Waste-Tank-6-Gal-p/11-0226.htm
Gauge not working. Turn off your water pump/city water off too. Open toilet flapper and eyeball 👁 the black tank level.
After the dump, it became obvious there existed a blockage between the toilet and the tank, since cleared.
Now the problem is the flapper opens weakly, and does not close on its own. I suspected friction with the seal, but I removed it and that's not it. Both flapper pivot points seem to move freely. There's just very little spring action working to close it.
I may have broken or dislocated something trying to open it while frozen. Any thoughts on where the spring attaches or what else it might be?
Thanks in advance.
It appears that there is a cartridge that contains the spring mechanism. https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-385310683-Toilet-Spring-Cartridge/dp/B00BPC073C looks like not a big deal to replace.
Upon further review I'm not so sure. The part referenced may not work in a model 310 toilet. Another thread somewhere showed pictures of the inside of the foot pedal assembly and there is a spring but I didn't see a cartridge that looked replaceable. In this case there were some plastic tabs that were broken off and therefore the spring that should have pulled the flapper back into closed position had nothing to engage with. I'd say remove the foot pedal cover, maybe remove the foot pedal assembly, and look inside, probably the issue will be apparent. Good luck.
Last edit, here's a link to the forum that discusses the issue. Has some pictures also. http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f217/dometic-toilet-flush-trap-failure-40969.html
As an update, there's definitely something broken in the linkage between pedal and flapper. I thought I was judicious in the application of pressure to the pedal while things were frozen, but apparently the fragility of the linkage is a known weakness.
Spoke to an RV repair place conveniently within a few miles of our TN property. They said typically it easiest to just replace the toilet. They said the flapper by itself was about $40, with a fair amount of labor to get it in place, and that a whole new toilet was just over $100.
On another topic, they'll also be troubleshooting our Dometic refrigerator. For quite a while the compressor was getting noisier, making "moaning" noises when it kicked in. Anyway, this trip up it gave up the ghost, not running on electric at all, and giving an E3 code when trying it on propane. Overtemp button not popped, and I see little else to check.
Anyway, I think my mistake was verbalizing that our rig was in a "sweet spot" where everything was working. Oh, well, the joys of mobile living, I suppose.
Quote from: FastEddieB on January 24, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
On another topic, they'll also be troubleshooting our Dometic refrigerator. For quite a while the compressor was getting noisier, making "moaning" noises when it kicked in. Anyway, this trip up it gave up the ghost, not running on electric at all, and giving an E3 code when trying it on propane. Overtemp button not popped, and I see little else to check.
Most RV fridges do not have compressors. In fact they have no moving parts except maybe a fan. Does the heater coil/flame even turn on?
Quote from: tinkeringtechie on January 24, 2018, 11:04:40 AM
Most RV fridges do not have compressors. In fact they have no moving parts except maybe a fan. Does the heater coil/flame even turn on?
Weird data point...
I unplugged the fridge from AC to see if it would run on propane. It wouldn't and returned that E3 error code.
I opened the access panel with the intent of removing the metal cover to see what was going on with the flame. As soon as I exerted pressure on the lower left screw, I hear "click click click click whoosh" as the burner lit. I thought that might get the fridge working, but soon thereafter had the E3 code and no flame or cooling.
If not a compressor, what would make cyclical moaning sounds from the fridge while working?
Edited to add: I dug up a video I made of the noisy fridge. Will post a Youtube link as soon as it uploads.
Here you go. Fast forward to about :35 for when it starts moaning.
https://youtu.be/Z8TKxHQW1U0 (https://youtu.be/Z8TKxHQW1U0)
Weird... the strange part is that the fan slows down too... so I'm guessing it's also 12V since they seem to be competing with each other. What's the model number of your fridge?
Quote from: tinkeringtechie on January 24, 2018, 11:04:40 AM
Quote from: FastEddieB on January 24, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
On another topic, they'll also be troubleshooting our Dometic refrigerator. For quite a while the compressor was getting noisier, making "moaning" noises when it kicked in. Anyway, this trip up it gave up the ghost, not running on electric at all, and giving an E3 code when trying it on propane. Overtemp button not popped, and I see little else to check.
Most RV fridges do not have compressors. In fact they have no moving parts except maybe a fan. Does the heater coil/flame even turn on?
Why didn't I think of that. My aged mind must be getting befuddled. Thanks Tinkeringtechie for pointing out the fact that the RV fridge does not have any moving parts. It uses heat, propane or electricity, to make cold. I know that sounds weird, but it works that way.
I can't imagine what is causing the noise, much less why it doesn't work. Try starting it on 110V electricity and after a few minutes take off the cover on the outside and feel the heater stack. The stack is on the right side of the open panel, above the propane burner. It should be warm, particularly at the top where it exhausts. If not it could be a tripped breaker, but that won't explain the LPG error. Or more likely something internal to the fridge's cooling system or controls. If it won't work on electricity and the breaker is on then you need to take it to a Dometic service dealer and one that works on these absorption cooling type fridges.
David
You say you "unplugged the fridge from AC to see if it would run on propane". Do you mean you disconnected a connecting wire harness of some kind at the refrigerator unit itself ?
Because the easiest way to accomplish this - unless you've done modifications to install a PDC with an inverter to provide AC power while running only off battery - would be disconnect at the pedestal.
I don't know about the connection, but if it is 3-pole AC, is it possible the ground is the ground for both AC and DC, at least for some part of the fridge ?
Our refrigerator AC is via a standard household socket and plug that I just unplugged.
I also tried shutting down all DC power, disconnecting the battery and unplugging from shore power to see if the DC circuitry might reset. No go.
Not sure of the model #. Whatever came stock in a 2014 21BHS.
I have a CL21RBS 2015 with the 7 CF refrig. This is before Thor started using the 6 CF model. Yours might be the same model as mine. The Dometic RM3762 RBFX. Also, you need to know the the flakes of residue from the heat of operation in the heat stack can fall down on the gas ignition and jets that can cause it to malfunction. At least once a year, I use compressed air to blow out any trash that can cause a problem. Since your unit is outside don't forget that insects/spiders can cause problems with nests/webs also.
Hope this helps
Gerald
Thanks! I think that's our model number.
Would that also cause problems with the electric operation? I've gotten in there before to clear out a mud dauber nest from the gas jet so I know what you're talking about there.
I don't think a blocked flue with a mud dauber's nest or whatever should affect electric operation. The electric coil doesn't need an exhaust stack. It simply heats the internal refrigerant coil.
David
Fasteddie,
Other than toilet and fridge problems, how's the airstrip homestead project going? Are you to the point of just flying back and forth?
Quote from: charliem on January 24, 2018, 10:25:13 PM
Fasteddie,
Other than toilet and fridge problems, how's the airstrip homestead project going? Are you to the point of just flying back and forth?
I may fly up today to check on the last few days of progress. Frigidly cold weather has slowed things down a bit. We normally drive for now, so we can schlep our 3 dogs along.
Digging out the hillside and building retaining walls for our "pole barn" turned out to be a much bigger - and more expensive - job than I imagined. In any case some plumbing is going in now, in preparation for pouring the foundation.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4726/38650822145_12bb68ea52_z.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4611/27981971139_897b38bd0c_z.jpg)
Don't think I've posted this before, but I'm proud of the job Kool Karen did on this fun little trailer:
https://youtu.be/sfob68a8YmA (https://youtu.be/sfob68a8YmA)
Fifty years ago I got my private pilots license but haven't used it in 45 years. I have landed on a few grass strips, but nothing like that hole in the woods that you took her into. Great job on both the flying and the trailer production.
David
VERY Kool video!
As a follow-up, the new toilet was $129, plus 1 1/2 hours labor. Not too bad.
After winterizing, has anyone considered leaving the hose feeding the pink stuff inserted interesting into a jug of it? That way you could still turn on the pump and flush with the pink stuff when needed.
The fridge repair deserves its own thread, coming soon.
Your idea of leaving a jug of pink stuff to flush with should work fine. Assuming you are buying the full strength pink stuff, dilute it 50/50. It only takes maybe a pint of water to flush so you will get about 8 flushes with a gallon of diluted pink stuff.
David