Hi, I am looking for a portable kit that would include everything I need to recharge my battery while dry camping for a weekend but I am not sure what to get, I don't want something too big and heavy and I would like something that I could fold to carry. I probably don't need something too powerful just something to help me extend my battery life when I go camping for 3-4 days weekend.
It's not something I would use often just once in a while because most time I have access to electricity so I don't want to invest too much
Any advice?
I wonder if something like this would be enough for my use
http://www.amazon.ca/ECO-WORTHY-40Watt-Portable-Folding-Controller/dp/B00UWJGBSY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451920589&sr=8-1&keywords=40w+solar+panel+kit
I currently use a 20W panel with controller, but it takes all day to recharge our 12V battery with sun light.
This one was recommended to me by another CampLite camper as good quality with good reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HR8YNK6?ref_=sr_1_4&qid=1424623842&sr=8-4&keywords=solar%20panel%20rv%20kits&pldnSite=1
With 20w you can recharge your battery in one day? That doesn't seem too bad, I am looking for something that would just recharge during the occasional weekend that I don't have access to electricity just to run my water pump and lights for 3-4 days weekend max.
Recharge battery in one day with a 20W solar panel when it's sunny. Only use LED lights for a couple hours and 12V DVD player for about an an hour at night. Battery is not fully discharged.
Would go with at least 40W panel or more.
2o watts really isn't enough unless it's a perfect day and the panel is getting full sun all day and your battery only need about 1/4 charge. 40 or more is good advice. I use a 70 watt and if I were to do it all again I wouldn't go less than 100.
Mitch
Quote from: Mitch on January 31, 2016, 07:10:33 PM
2o watts really isn't enough unless it's a perfect day and the panel is getting full sun all day and your battery only need about 1/4 charge. 40 or more is good advice. I use a 70 watt and if I were to do it all again I wouldn't go less than 100.
Mitch
Thank you for the advise!
If you are buying a panel go for 100+ watts. I have an 80w and it was great for the pop up but just hangs in for the TT. You can see our panel just to the left of the left rear tire on the TV.
100 watts is the sweet spot in 12V solar panels. You can buy one for $110 including shipping if you are a member of Amazon Prime. If you need more watts than that, and I suspect you won't, then buy two.
Here is some math and rules of thumb:
Most single trailer batteries have about 70 amp hours of capacity and most of us only use 15-20 amp hours daily. A 100 watt solar panel laying flat in full sun will make 25-35 amp hours each day. So the 100 watt panel will keep your battery fully charged if you get full sun at least every other day and you use the typical amp hours each day. More watts also compensates for afternoon shading, because many campsites are in the shade at least part of the day. In that case a 100 watt panel might only produce 10-15 amp hours each day, but even that will extend your batteries from lasting 2 days to almost a week, as long as the sun shines.
Here is a simple system that costs about $200-250. All it takes is a little wiring to put it together. The controller is waterproof, so you could mount it to the back of your solar panel if the distance to the batteries is short- say 10' or on the side of the battery box if it is longer. The panels are Chinese made, like most of them and I have never seen any complaints about Chinese solar panels. They make a gazillion of them. The controller is American, well at least American design and QA management and are from a major supplier of solar controllers- Morningstar. I have a system like this on my boat and it has kept the batteries charged nicely while on a mooring away from shorepower.
Here are some simple instructions for building a solar system and mounting the controller on the outside of your battery box:
Mount the controller near the outside of your battery box using a couple of #10 or larger screws and nuts. Then get as many feet of MC4 cable as you need to go from the panel to the controller. For 25' of cable, you will need to use a pair of MC4 10 gauge cables like these- www.amazon.com/Solar-Panel-Extension-Cable-Connectors/dp/B00KDNQQRK/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1480515257&sr=8-8&keywords=mc4+cable. You can use 12 gauge if the distance is less. 100' is probably the practical maximum as there would be too much voltage drop otherwise.
Then wire a short MC4 pigtail cable like this to the input of your solar controller- www.amazon.com/Grape-Solar-GS-MC4-CC-6-Inch-Conversion/dp/B00MS8AKRU/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1480515257&sr=8-7&keywords=mc4+cable. You can use automotive type clamp connectors or butt crimp connectors. Finally wire the output of the controller to the battery lugs using a couple of short lengths of stranded 12 gauge cable. Use an inline fuse in the positive wire to protect it like this one- www.amazon.com/AutoEC-Inline-Waterproof-Fuse-Holder/dp/B013JG8GIY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1480516741&sr=8-5&keywords=inline+fuse
When you get to your campground, place the solar panel in a sunny spot. Run the MC4 extension cable from the panel and plug it into the MC4 pigtails on the controller. Make sure that you maintain polarity when you hook up the extensions. Then you are in business. When you are ready to go home, disconnect the extension cable and flip up the pigtail into the battery box to protect it while traveling.
Solar panel- www.amazon.com/HQST-Watt-Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel/dp/B018BOK9WU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479928915&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=100+watt+solar+panel&psc=1
Waterproof controller- www.amazon.com/Morningstar-SK-12-SunKeeper-Charge-Controller/dp/B007NYZ5VU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1479929271&sr=8-3&keywords=morningstar+pwm+charge+controller
David
Quote from: DavidM on November 23, 2016, 03:33:00 PM
100 watts is the sweet spot in 12V solar panels. You can buy one for $110 including shipping if you are a member of Amazon Prime. If you need more watts than that, and I suspect you won't, then buy two.
Here is some math and rules of thumb:
Most single batteries have about 70 amp hours of capacity and most of us only use 15-20 amp hours daily. A 100 watt solar panel laying flat in full sun will make 25-35 amp hours each day. So the 100 watt panel will keep your battery fully charged if you get full sun at least every other day and you use the typical amp hours each day.
Here is a simple system that costs less than $200. All it takes is a little wiring to put it together. The first controller is for if you can put it in a waterproof place. The second one is waterproof, so you could mount it to the back of your solar panel.
Solar panel- https://www.amazon.com/HQST-Watt-Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel/dp/B018BOK9WU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479928915&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=100+watt+solar+panel&psc=1
Non waterproof controller- https://www.amazon.com/SunSaver-Charge-Controller-12V-10A/dp/B002MQW3H8/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1479929034&sr=8-11&keywords=10+amp+solar+charge+controller
Waterproof controller- https://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-SK-12-SunKeeper-Charge-Controller/dp/B007NYZ5VU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1479929271&sr=8-3&keywords=morningstar+pwm+charge+controller
David
At that price and size, laying out 2 panels is not twice as much work as one, so may as well throw 2 down to make up for less than full sun or seasonally shortened days.
D, have you found any good 100w panels that are flexible/roll up for storage ?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
No, the really flexible panels that were offered a dozen or so years ago had a serious flaw- their output deteriorated after a few years. I had some that I tried to use after 5 years and it wasn't worth it, the output was so low.
I have seen some that are flexible and bend up to 30 degrees on Amazon, but that isn't what you are looking for.
David
I just used a Cyber-Monday sale to order a nice Samlex SMK-135 solar battery charging system for our camper. I re-read Davidm's newsletter article on solar and did some searching on the forum (hence posting in this thread!) before I decided on size and type. What I bought is a 135 watt portable system that folds up into a 22X25X3 soft-sided "suitcase" that I will toss (weighs 29 pounds) in the back of the TV to have with us when we camp without shore power. It unfolds into a 3 panel system, complete with a PWM charge controller and battery clips and can be put anywhere in the sun within the 16 foot cord length. I would rather have had a MPPT controller, but I have a spare one of those and if I don't like the charging characteristics of the PWM controller I'll swap out. Since we purposefully park in the shade, especially when we can't use A/C, a portable set up made the most sense for us. I'll post photos and the set-up when it arrives and I have time to check it out. Meanwhile.....on to check out more Cyber-Monday stuff!
A quick update.....29 pounds is too heavy to "toss". I'll be putting it in the pass-through compartment. The charge controller is non-adjustable and is set for AGM type batteries. The charge controller is mounted on a panel and is not waterproof. Otherwise the system is well made and easy to set up.
Second quick update......I do not recommend this unit. I am returning it. In addition to the comments in the first quick update above, I found the wiring has no strain-relief and therefore had loose/detached connections as a result of the wires/plugs banging around inside the case. I re-attached the wires, but it will happen again under the stress of travel and I don't want to repair this design flaw. Hopefully, there are other portable, folding solar systems for my camper.
I like the looks of the Zamp kits for our QS10, and was looking at the 80 watt kit. Expensive but good reviews and seemingly well thought out, quality package. $400-500
$400-500 for 80 watts, wow!! If you follow my solar panel article, you can get 100 watts and a better controller for about $200, a bit more for cabling.
If you already have a Zamp connector on your CL, buy one of these to hook up to it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0057ZQJ12/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3SWULPLORRIPP&colid=3RQ44LC06SQ2O&psc=0
You can use the MC-4 cabling discussed on my article. Just cut the other end off at the right length and splice it to the connector above.
David
Be careful about value on solar. The Zamp kits may have been an ok value several years ago when solar panels were costly, but they failed to lower prices with the lower panel costs of today. You can get high quality panels for less than $1 per watt, even at retail. Throw in a good controller, some wire and a case and a good value for an 80 watt system would be half what Zamp wants. If you go with Zamp, look for a super sale!
thanks! good advice.
ok, after doing more research and looking at the pre made kits vs building something, it appears that the Zamp is significantly overpriced. But, knowing nothing about the controllers, how would one know if the controller/battery tender units that come with these kits are decent? And, on the DIY kit posted earlier, I added up about $300 of parts. What makes that better than something like this:
https://www.renogy.com/products/kits/starter-kits/
I don't know much about it, with that being said, for me, a kit is the way to go. Sounds like the general consensus is a minimum of 100 watt. 90% of my camping is in shaded campsites, hopefully the 100 watt unit is adequate.
Quote from: catmanriff on November 30, 2017, 07:34:07 PM
thanks! good advice.
ok, after doing more research and looking at the pre made kits vs building something, it appears that the Zamp is significantly overpriced. But, knowing nothing about the controllers, how would one know if the controller/battery tender units that come with these kits are decent? And, on the DIY kit posted earlier, I added up about $300 of parts. What makes that better than something like this:
https://www.renogy.com/products/kits/starter-kits/
As far as Renogy is concerned, I would recommend their folding "suitcase" kits for portable solar, instead of the permanent installation kits in your post. The open box 100 watt set up seem like a decent value and is what I'm considering next.
https://www.renogy.com/products/solar-kits/folding-solar-suitcases/
https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt-eclipse-solar-suitcase-open-box-like-new/
I'm also considering the lightweight Acopower portable, since it's on sale right now.
https://www.amazon.com/ACOPOWER-Foldable-Portable-Monocrystalline-Controller/dp/B01M8LCDN2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1512089330&sr=8-6&keywords=folding+RV+solar+power
I have no experience with either.
Renogy kits are not badly priced, unlike the Zamp kit. Renogy is a Chinese supplier. I say supplier because I have no idea if they really make anything themselves.
I am pretty sure that there is no real difference among solar panels. One Chinese made panel is just as good as an American made one. But electronics, ie controllers are different. I have had one Chinese supplied controller fail withing a few weeks. Most hobbyists like me have had the same experience with Chinese supplied electronics.
So I believe one should buy a name brand, American designed but probably Chinese made controller like Morningstar. To add credence to this view, go to any of the main online solar panels vendors like wholesalesolar.com and see which controllers they sell. They sell Outback, Schneider, Morningstar, Blue Sky, Magnum, etc. These are solid controllers that will stand up well. They do cost more than the pure Chinese junk controllers, about 2-3 times more. But you get what you pay for in this case. Also note that the Morningstar 12 amp controller that I referenced in my article is the only one I know of that is completely waterproof for mounting outside on your battery box.
Before you jump on a suitcase package, look at the flexible solar panels. They cost more but are about 1/3 the weight of a conventional panel.
And to the guy who camps in shade. You probably need about 50-100' of cable to get into a sunny spot. No package will give you that. MC4 cables that I discussed in the article will.
And finally to Roger: That Acopower kit looks good except for the controller. But note the position of the controller- near the panel. That is backwards not to mention that it probably isn't waterproof. A panel usually has plenty of voltage output- 17 is the maximum power point typically, so it can stand a voltage drop from the panel to the controller through 100' of cable and still work ok. But you want the controller to be as close as possible to the battery to avoid any voltage drop on the output side. The controller is responsible for maintaining the three step charging profile and a long cable run to the battery screws that up. The controller sees 14V at its terminals but due to voltage drop the battery may only see 13 volts which won't do much charging.
I have seen some installations that almost doubled their actual output when wired correctly vs incorrectly as Acopower's diagram seems to indicate.
David
This guy has some good information about what works and what does not.
Check it out.
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/
Wow, he is an opinionated SOB. Having said that, I agree with virtually everything he says.
David
Great advice, David. Whatever I go with for panels, I'll use the Morningstar controller in your article and mount it next to the batteries. The longer of the wires really does need to be from the panels to the controller and not the other way around! Thanks!
Quote from: Diversteve on November 30, 2017, 10:08:00 PM
This guy has some good information about what works and what does not.
Check it out.
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/
fascinating reading. I may have to read all his stuff a few times for it to sink in.
thanks
The June 2018 issue of Trailer Life Magazine has a how-to article on installing solar in a camper. I recommend it for the basics to anyone considering a move to solar.
Edit: Upon more careful reading of the article, I found a number of mistakes and misleading statements about solar. The installation info is ok, but I'm not impressed with some of the "facts" . I plan to send a letter to the editor about it.
As a quick "real-time" update, I'm using solar power right now to run my camper and it's working out great. I've got a flexible Renogy 100 watt panel on 40' of wire I can get in the sun most of the day, hooked up to an older MPPT controller, and that power goes into my 2 Group 31 12V batteries. The batteries are getting fully charged each day and we are using electrical power pretty much normally (except of course no A/C or microwave). I'll post full details and photos when we get back. More than a week of this month-long trip is at rustic sites off the grid.
Merlin:
I assume that you are back by now and can tell us more about how your solar panel setup works. You say above that it keeps your batteries fully charged. How many AHs do you estimate that you use each day? How hard was it to position the panels so they get sun?
David
Would love to see some updates on what folks are doing with solar. Now that I have my generator situation nailed having a 100wts of folding portable solar is rising up my list. I've had my eye on this setup but have really not done enough research yet... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079JVBVL3/
(Then again solar falls behind an Andersen No-Sway and a Weboost on my list, so I'm in no hurry. ;) )
Hi,
I just finished a little solar project today.
Picked up an older Zamp 60 watt panel at a garage sale for a very good price, it was still in the box and the seller included 50 ft of 10 GA solar wire. It was a great deal.
We have to store our rig with no access to power, so this little panel is perfect for maintaining a full charge while sitting in storage.
Put together a new SAE harness with a waterproof 15 AMP blade fuse and installed a basic Zamp 8 amp charger. Mounted the charger in the pass through and ran the wires up through the floor. We have a portable Zamp 120 watt kit as well so the connections are now all the same.
The most difficult part was bending the bracket that is attached to the panel. We live in a condo so everything was made on the back of the truck tailgate. I had to heat the aluminum up with a torch prior to bending. I used the old soot trick to know when the aluminum was ready to be bent. Pre drilled some relief holes to help with the 90 degree bends as well.
Kept me busy for a few hours! Lots of fun!
Looks nice
My solar system consists of a Renogy 100 watt flexible panel and 40 feet of 10 AWG outdoor rated cable with MC4 connectors to the panel. The other end of the wire has a Minnkota trolling motor water proofing locking type connector for plugging into the corresponding socket I mounted on the battery box. In the battery box I have a Morningstar 15A MPPT charge controller that is outdoor rated (but not waterproof). The 10 AWG wiring from that goes through a Blue Seas 30A circuit breaker that also serves as an on-off switch and then to the two group 31 AGM 12V marine batteries (in parallel). The remote monitor for the controller is mounted inside the camper.
I put the panel wherever there is the most direct sun (moved throughout the day if necessary). It's very light and easy to re-position; it's been on picnic tables, trees, the camper, the tow vehicle, a chair, etc. The panel stores in the pass-through in the foam padded packaging it came in. can reliably supply between 6-8 amps into the batteries when in the sun. Light shade or light clouds, about half that. So, with a typical sunny summer camping day I can generate 50-60 amp-hours of electricity. I don't yet have a good way to monitor amp-hour usage in the camper, but at the 4 campsites and 10 days total I've used the system, the batteries always been fully recharged each day.
I'm really happy with the system. If I had to do it over, I would do exactly the same thing. 8)
Great setup!
Perfect example of a small very efficient system. You can't knock the harvesting power of your MPPT controller. I was considering changing my basic PWM to a MPPT for the increased efficiency and benefits, but I have other projects that warrant the additional funds. Plus with our Honda eu2000i I use the DC port to top up on cloudy days, this option is only really required in winter. Ah, another great advantage of your MPPT controller.
Let me offer some suggestions and advice re the previous posts:
MPPT controllers let you get maybe 10-15% more power out of a solar panel and are absolutely required when hooking up a larger, 24V nominal panel. But they are expensive. Merlin's Morningstar 15A MPPT controller is listed on Amazon for about $250. That is two and a half times the cost of the 100 watt panel it is hooked up to. A Morningstar non water proof PWM controller costs about $70 and a water proof one, about $10 more. Is it worth paying double the cost of a 100 watt system to get maybe 10-15% more power? Particularly when Merlin's system probably can potentially supply twice the amp hours he consumes daily.
Switching to your Honda generator. If you use its DC charging port which is what I think you are saying, you get something like 10 amps and it is not three step regulated. If you hook up the generator's AC output to your camper then you can get the full 45A (typical) output of your converter and it is three step regulated.
David
Great advice!
My thoughts of not using the 3 stage converter and sometimes using the DC generator port is due the efficiency of that PD4000 control centre.
While connected to a solar system won't that converter start at the 45 A setting and then drop down into a float or trickle charge? IMO, as soon as it senses the solar current it scales back the output. I would be wasting fuel to charge my batteries in this manner. Having the benefit of a three stage regulated output is muted. Just my opinion.
How he solar controller and the PD converter act together depends on the capacity of the batteries and their state of charge plus the charging characteristics of the two devices. If the batteries are relatively big, like two GC batteries and are well discharged, then both may put out at their rated maximums (assuming lots of sun). As they get more fully charged one will start cutting back output. You don't know which one cuts back without doing some testing which requires a clamp on ammeter and an accurate voltmeter.
Yes the DC output of the generator might produce more charging since it has a fixed, relatively high voltage. But it would have to be 14.5 V or more to keep up with the PD converter or the solar controller as the batteries get full. But why not use both the DC output as well as hook up the genset to the shore power connector? You will get the best of both.
David
Quote from: DavidM on September 12, 2018, 01:49:29 PM
Let me offer some suggestions and advice re the previous posts:
MPPT controllers let you get maybe 10-15% more power out of a solar panel and are absolutely required when hooking up a larger, 24V nominal panel. But they are expensive. Merlin's Morningstar 15A MPPT controller is listed on Amazon for about $250. That is two and a half times the cost of the 100 watt panel it is hooked up to. A Morningstar non water proof PWM controller costs about $70 and a water proof one, about $10 more. Is it worth paying double the cost of a 100 watt system to get maybe 10-15% more power? Particularly when Merlin's system probably can potentially supply twice the amp hours he consumes daily.
Switching to your Honda generator. If you use its DC charging port which is what I think you are saying, you get something like 10 amps and it is not three step regulated. If you hook up the generator's AC output to your camper then you can get the full 45A (typical) output of your converter and it is three step regulated.
David
You're absolutely right about the economics of an MPPT controller in a very small system like mine. I should have mentioned that the Morningstar I used was an older controller I had sitting on the workbench, removed from another project. If I had purchased all the equipment new, a PWM controller would have been fine! As it was, the only new components were the panel and the Minnkota plug/receptacle.