Hello Everyone,
Having sold our Quicksilver 8.0 last year (after 3 years of solid enjoyment) we're hoping to again join the LivinLite/Camplite community. We have upgraded our TV from a Honda CRV to. 2020 AWD Ridgeline. The Gen2 Ridgeline has a maximum towing capacity of 5,000 lbs. and a hitch weight limit of 600 lbs. and a payload limit of about 1600 lbs. The Honda manual for the Gen1 Ridgeline (prior to 2017 models) warned against towing with a WDH and the Gen2 manual doesn't really address the issue. We have our eyes on a 2015 Camplite 21rbs with a UVW of 3650 lbs. We plan to pack lightly with minimal gear (experience with the Quicksilver 8.0 should help) and stay well under the 5000 lbs. towing limit. Has anyone towed a similar weight or heavier rig with a Ridgeline, either Gen1 or Gen2? Did you use a WDH? What make, please? And do you recommend. If you towed without a WDH, please comment. All replies welcome. Thanks,
Lily & humans:J & L
Two other members on here tow with a Gen 2 Ridgeline, @Jackson (https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=429) and @dlb53151 (https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=644) but both have smaller Camplites.
Maybe they can shed some light on towing larger or with/without WD.
Thank you, Merlin! I will reach out to them.
We do tow our 16tbs using a Anderson WDH while always keeping a minimum dry load. The 16tbs is single axel and doesn't require much adjustment to properly balance. Not sure how this compares to dual axel or whether that matters. After many thousands of miles of prairie and mountain travel the G2 and 16tbs seem quite compatible despite Hondas caution. 55/60 MPH in the slow lane is our standard mode of travel using the Honda tranny in tow mode. The G2 is the most luxurious TV compared to ladder frame TV so I hope you can make it work for you.
The Andersen WDH is a good choice for the Ridgeline as it does not transfer much weight forward. I am sure it was stresses on the frame from more typical WDHs that caused Honda to issue their warning.
But that begs the question, if it doesn't transfer much weight forward, why use it. Many users say that the sway stability is actually more important than the weight transfer and the Andersen does a good job with dampening sway.
David
Thank you, Jackson & David. This information is very helpful; it's good to know we seem to be thinking in the right direction about WDH. Jackson, do you use towing mirrors with your Camplite? If so, what brand & model?
Hello Josh / Lin - We have a 2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E for our TV. Our trailer is a 2016 16TBS which we just had repainted to match our TV. We have a Reese WDH - Model 49903. A WDH is a must.... Overall we are 'modestly pleased' with the towing capabilities of our TV. The Reese is a good WDH and we don't have any issues with it. If I had to do it over again I may spend more $ and get the Equal-I-zer for even more peace of mind. (I hate spending money but like to be over-engineered when it comes to towing anything. On that note, see my posts regarding our upgrading of our tongue coupler to a Bulldog). We use premium fuel when towing. Happy to provide more specifics if you have any questions. We're one big happy LL family here!!
Hello DLB, Thanks so much for sharing! Love the photo & wish we were camping next door (where?). If not asking too much, please 'elucidate' on 'modestly pleased''; does that relate to your Ridgeline or Camplite? Also! Do you have towing mirrors? Any tranny issues with your RTl-E? Any issues at all?
Quote from: Lily on November 28, 2020, 06:08:41 PM
Thank you, Jackson & David. This information is very helpful; it's good to know we seem to be thinking in the right direction about WDH. Jackson, do you use towing mirrors with your Camplite? If so, what brand & model?
Fortunately the 16tbs is practically the same width as the TV so the vehicle mirrors are adequate. We've crossed some narrow country bridges with just inches to spare on either side which is a thankful consideration.
Thanks for the information, Jackson. I think the width of the 21rbs is the same as the 16 so will probably try without 1st & see what we can see.
Quote from: Lily on December 02, 2020, 10:53:42 AM
Thanks for the information, Jackson. I think the width of the 21rbs is the same as the 16 so will probably try without 1st & see what we can see.
The width should be the same. I tow my 21BHS with a Ram 1500 and the camper is basically the same width as the truck, maybe a bit smaller. In either case, the standard mirrors work great, and the narrower width is a nice advantage in my opinion.
Thanks! Good to know. Any serious issues with your 21BHS?
Djsmanuel,
Thanks for the info. I have a 2018 Ram and was contemplating the need to purchase towing mirrors. I am in the market for a 21 RBS so I will be towing the same length with the same vehicle. I'll hold off and see how it works without them.
Quote from: Lily on December 02, 2020, 06:26:48 PM
Thanks! Good to know. Any serious issues with your 21BHS?
Only major problem was failure of the A/C under warranty. Other than that, the camper has been terrific. We bought it in 2013 and have taken it from Florida out to Arizona and Utah as well as to Tennessee several times. Also around Florida a lot. Very nice camper and we really enjoy it. Very easy to tow and get into smaller camp sites such as those in National and State parks.
Quote from: Jonathan on December 02, 2020, 07:50:14 PM
Djsmanuel,
Thanks for the info. I have a 2018 Ram and was contemplating the need to purchase towing mirrors. I am in the market for a 21 RBS so I will be towing the same length with the same vehicle. I'll hold off and see how it works without them.
I think you'll be pleased with the stock mirrors on the truck. I can easily see down the entire length of the camper. Very good visibility without the tow mirrors. The Ram will tow the camper really well.
Great information & very assuring. Thanks so much. Will report our experience as soon as we have any! Lucy & humans.
Lily - To clarify, our 2019 Ridgeline RTL-E does struggle at times with towing our 16TBS. It will frequently hit 4K RPMs even when towing on a level road. We are typically around 4400 lbs with the trailer loaded up (that is not with full water tank). With the gear in our truck and my wife and I we are easily at the 5k towing limit. We use premium gas when towing. If I had to rate my RTL-E towing satisfaction on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being best, I would give it a 5. Otherwise, we are very pleased with the RTL-E and am willing to put up with the sluggish towing given the overall positives. I still prefer that to a bigger truck unless we were towing a lot more frequently throughout the year.
We did install this Honda extended view driver side mirror, which helps.
That pic was from this summer of 2020 at the Sun RV Resort in Petoskey, MI. (Sun also has a KOA resort there as well. We didn't stay at that one). Overall it was a great place. We already have some time booked there for next June.
Thanks again. Will look into the extended mirror. In the photo the mirror doesn't appear to be much larger or project farther out from the door than the stock mirror. Price seems reasonable. Did the dealer install them?
Quote from: Lily on December 06, 2020, 10:43:01 AM
Thanks again. Will look into the extended mirror. In the photo the mirror doesn't appear to be much larger or project farther out from the door than the stock mirror. Price seems reasonable. Did the dealer install them?
Just to clarify on the mirrors.......it's just a glass replacement with the outer edge being at a different angle to see "wider". You can also buy that feature as a little round mirror to stick on.
Got it. Thanks, Merlin.
I think it is important for folks to understand how WDH works and what it can/can't do.
Many think (because they are led to believe so by dealers) that WDH is some sort of "embiggener" for tow capacity.
And it is, kinda-sorta. Truck manufacturers put out two figures for tow limit, with and without WDH and to get the bigger number you need WDH.
But why ?
Well, tongue weight, which also means rear axle weight.
See, when you have too much tongue weight, two things happen:
1) The rear end squats, taking weight off the front wheels. This is bad because that's where your steering is, and also where most of your braking happens. Probably on the order of 65/35 front/rear. So now you can control where you are going, and you also can't stop. Not happy.
2) The rear axles, wheels, tires have their limits, too. So depending on where you are with all your weights in the TV, the trailer, and how it is all loaded, you could be under the main limits you know about, but be way over the limit of these components.
What WDH does is use leverage to shift weight to the front of the TV (most people know this) but also back to the trailer axles (most people don't know this).
So if you are already at your limits, and think "I'll throw WDH and that'll allow me to push it", you could end up popping the component limits elsewhere.
Shifting weight away from the rear axles and preserving its limits, and also ensuring the front end's steering and braking is what allows you to tow higher weights.
That leverage places a lot of strain on structure. We've seen undersized and wrongly attached couplers bend under the strain of WDH. Auto manufacturers almost without exception do not support the use of WDH with their unibody vehicles.
Now, the older LL's were way over-engineered in some aspects (couplers notwithstanding). Our 2014 14DBS had dual 3.5k axles and a dry weight of 2500#. This is the kind of thing that keeps your component limits waaaay ahead of the gross.
So how do you know your component limits ? You have to look up your trailer axles and specs, the tires too. Your tow vehicle MAY document the front and rear axle capacities. Tires will have it stamped on the sidewalls.
You also need to know your TV's cargo/hauling capacity, and stay within that. That means you, any passengers - at their real street weight, not what they tell DMV to put on their driver's licence, and including your 90# dog. And other cargo, like firewood, bikes, luggage, coolers full of food/beer/ice, your propane grill, etc. Oh, and fuel at 7#/gallon.
Then you need to know how its loaded. Head to the scales. Pay if you have to. Loaded for the trip, pull just your front TV wheels on. Get that number to compare to the tire limits and the front axle limits if you know them. Pull forward and get your total TV weight - you'll need that compared to the TV GVWR. Pull forward so your front wheels are off the scale - now you know your rear weight.
All that is without the trailer. Repeat with the trailer connected.
Also weigh just the tongue weight - this will require you to chock your wheels, drop the tongue jack and unhook from the TV.
Finally, weigh the trailer itself. Again, you'll want the trailer wheels and tongue jack on the scale and unhitch the TV to get your GVWR on the trailer without any tongue weight carried by the TV.
You now have the numbers you need.
What ? Air bags ? Uh, ok. So air bags will allow you to not have the bed of your truck bottom out on the axles, and it will help with how it appears to sag. But the weight is still going straight down on the frame in the rear, so air bags won't give you any more capacity on the axles. Airbags don't transfer any weight to the front so your steering and braking problems won't be addressed. Airbags DO give you more capacity than your rear springs have, so if that's the component you are worried about, great. But they don't help with anything else.
Please don't let anyone tell you that you can push your limits just by adding WDH and airbags, while ignoring the rest.
Thanks, Pinstriper. Excellent tutorial. Still leaves a bit of a ? in terms of a WDH with a Ridgeline which has a unibody construction. Would appreciate your thoughts about a WDH with a Ridgeline or Pilot. Thinking specifically about an Anderson WDH as it offers a unique design and simplicity.
Quote from: Lily on December 06, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
Thanks, Pinstriper. Excellent tutorial. Still leaves a bit of a ? in terms of a WDH with a Ridgeline which has a unibody construction. Would appreciate your thoughts about a WDH with a Ridgeline or Pilot. Thinking specifically about an Anderson WDH as it offers a unique design and simplicity.
I would check the owners manual and see what it says regarding WDH. I do agree that the Andersen is a bit of a different beast and puts much less stress, of course it is D'ing much less W.
Thing is, if you stay within your tongue weight limits, and also keep to the 12-15% rule, you ought not have a bad ride.
OTOH if you need WDH at these weights (sub-5k trailers) you pretty much don't have enough tow vehicle IMO.
I would like to add to what Pin had to say.
You should load up for a trip and head to the scales. The only way to know is to get on the scales.
The dry weight can be deceiving as it does not always account for extras like AC. A good rule of thumb is to use the trailers max weight.
You need to consider everything that you add to the truck as well, even the weight of the WD hitch. It is all about the weight. . The vehicle manufacturer will list the max capacity.
There is no "fudge factor" you do not want to push the maximum weight always have a safety factor.
Try this link for a calculator. there are others out there. Do your home work, read the fine print go to the Honda website and look for towing capacity. There are some that differ based on flat towing vs mountain towing.
You don't want to damage your Honda and you don't want to have an unsafe rig.
Take care. Happy camping.
D.S.
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml
Thanks, Diversteve. Still looking for the right Camplite & hoping it appears soon. Those we do see are a bit too far away given the current travel restrictions. Will post a note as soon as we find one.
Stay well everyone!
Just my 2 cents: the Reese WDH makes a big difference in my towing with the Ridgeline. Much more stable / less sway.
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I tow the same 16 foot TT with a 2020 Ridgeline RTLE which has a 9 speed tranny and paddle shifters and an 'S' mode for manually shifting it. I found this terrific for towing, 7th gear being a happy 65mph highway medium between RPM and speed..... Did many Eastern mountain range crossing this way also, for 12k miles last summer. I can imagine this would have been awful with a 6speed, non manually actuated tranny..... I do think the tongue weight on the rig is excessive, what with all our storage way up fwd in the pass thru. I'm designing a rear bumper 'box' for some of the heavy stuff.
dlb53151 which Reese WDH do you have ?
Quote from: gzelna on April 01, 2023, 10:26:49 PMdlb53151 which Reese WDH do you have ?
Earlier in this thread @dlb53151 mentioned it was Reese Model 49903.