2018 Quicksilver 10.0

[Entropy3XD]

For those who are interested in the 2018 Quicksilver 10.0, here is a series of videos detailing the inside, outside, and changes to the 2018 model. 

Part 1 - inside Tour
https://youtu.be/2d8B8HoxBgw

Part 2 - Outside Tour
https://youtu.be/AG-sd4aQXco

Part 3 - 2018 Changes and Quality Issues (Inside & Box)
https://youtu.be/W2OZcum6GnI

Part 4 - 2018 Changes to Floor and Frame
https://youtu.be/rDCflYi1Ftw
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[pjcd]

Livin'lite has had QC issues for years, being consumed by Thor hasn't improved it any. There is plenty of information regarding their issues on this forum. I would go over the trailer and document everything, (seems like you have that covered). Make sure you check all your frame welds, electrical work and appliance hook ups. I've fond issues with all of these. My 21RBS has an aluminum roof and floors, if it wasn't for that aspect I wouldn't have purchased a LL product. I like the trailer and don't have any plans on getting rid of it, (the whole industry sucks when it comes to QC) at this point I have just about taken care of all the little  and big issues with the trailer. A "no wood" trailer is worth putting up with any of the annoying issues that have come up.

[Entropy3XD]

Livin'lite has had QC issues for years, being consumed by Thor hasn't improved it any. There is plenty of information regarding their issues on this forum. I would go over the trailer and document everything, (seems like you have that covered). Make sure you check all your frame welds, electrical work and appliance hook ups. I've fond issues with all of these. My 21RBS has an aluminum roof and floors, if it wasn't for that aspect I wouldn't have purchased a LL product. I like the trailer and don't have any plans on getting rid of it, (the whole industry sucks when it comes to QC) at this point I have just about taken care of all the little  and big issues with the trailer. A "no wood" trailer is worth putting up with any of the annoying issues that have come up.

Yeah, the all aluminum frame and floor was the entire reason I put a down payment on a Quicksilver.  I was expecting to run into a few QC problems, and have no problem doing some cleanup or mods to correct it, but LL replacing the floor without telling dealers or people who ordered is inexcusable in my book.  Days before I went to pick it up they were still referencing the all aluminum floor on their website and videos.  These have since been taken down. 

[pjcd]

At this point I don't believe that there is any advantage to a LL product.

[kybrowns1]

 It seems you have things well documented.  You deserve a full refund. 

Nice job on your post and videos. Please keep the forum up to date on your situation.

Hang in there


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[RockorSomething]

At this point I don't believe that there is any advantage to a LL product.

Are they still lightweight?
Rot free?
Rust free?

Has the substitution of a different flooring material negated those advantages?
Assuming they didn't use wood, steel, or cardboard, I'd think those advantages are still intact.

[Entropy3XD]

It seems you have things well documented.  You deserve a full refund. 

Nice job on your post and videos. Please keep the forum up to date on your situation.

Hang in there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you.  I'm hoping to finally hear back from someone at Livin Lite this week.

[Entropy3XD]

At this point I don't believe that there is any advantage to a LL product.

Are they still lightweight?
Rot free?
Rust free?

Has the substitution of a different flooring material negated those advantages?
Assuming they didn't use wood, steel, or cardboard, I'd think those advantages are still intact.

Yes, they are still light.  Mine is about 1300 lbs., but it has the off road package and rear rack.  I see nothing that can rust.  Rot, I'm honestly not sure, as that material on the underside of the floor looks a lot like cardboard or a wood based product.  The routing of the propane lines across the frame where they are now exposed has me concerned.

[RockorSomething]

....Rot, I'm honestly not sure, as that material on the underside of the floor looks a lot like cardboard or a wood based product.  The routing of the propane lines across the frame where they are now exposed has me concerned.

I watched your videos; in particular your final video:
I could be wrong, but that paper material you are concerned about appears to be a paper product called 'skinstick.' It's only purpose is to serve as a impermeable vacuum layer during the bonding of composites. It is not intended to provide any structural integrity.

[Entropy3XD]

....Rot, I'm honestly not sure, as that material on the underside of the floor looks a lot like cardboard or a wood based product.  The routing of the propane lines across the frame where they are now exposed has me concerned.

I watched your videos; in particular your final video:
I could be wrong, but that paper material you are concerned about appears to be a paper product called 'skinstick.' It's only purpose is to serve as a impermeable vacuum layer during the bonding of composites. It is not intended to provide any structural integrity.

Thank you RockorSomething.  Do you know where I can lookup more information on skinstick?  It definitely doesn't provide any structural integrity, but I'm wondering how it holds up to the elements.

[RockorSomething]

Thank you RockorSomething.  Do you know where I can lookup more information on skinstick?  It definitely doesn't provide any structural integrity, but I'm wondering how it holds up to the elements.

Assuming that it is what i believe it to be...
The only purpose of the paper/skinstick is during production. Afterwards, it doesn't need to hold up under any environment or stress as it's purpose has been served.
The only reason it is still there is because it becomes bonded to the composite permanently and it would be more work to remove it.

Then again. I could be misidentifying it completely.

It's a shame that Livinlite, recognizing customers concerns, won't release information about the modification to their build components.

Has anyone tried to contact Livinlite directly about the process and material used?

[Entropy3XD]

Thank you RockorSomething.  Do you know where I can lookup more information on skinstick?  It definitely doesn't provide any structural integrity, but I'm wondering how it holds up to the elements.

Has anyone tried to contact Livinlite directly about the process and material used?

Nothing from Livin' Lite yet, but in their plant tour brochure, on slides 14-16 there are pictures.  Slide 17 cracks me up.
https://www.livinlite.com/brochures/2017/Livin-Lite-Plant-Tour-2017.pdf

Another owner who was surprised by what he received did some research and the top layer seems to be a product called Lamilux.  Looks like they sandwiched 2 lb. foam between a couple of Lamilux layers, with that cardboard stuff and another layer of some woven plastic\fabric on the outside.  Here is what that other owner said:


OTHER OWNER: As for the floor, I did some research after the fact on the Lamilux brand and discovered it is basically a thin (3mm) glass reinforced polymer (grp) sheet with a 'foamed pvc' top deco layer 'permanently bonded' to the grp layer. It is meant to be used as the top layer in laminate structures for floors and walls. I understand that LL/KZ produce laminates in-house. Here is what Lamilux says on their website: www.lamilux.com

This new material will make it possible to use sandwich floor structures with less wood or even without wood in the future. This allows design engineers to achieve three key objectives: reduce weight significantly, improve resistance to damp and moisture, thus eliminating mould and swelling, and optimise thermal insulation in caravan flooring.

Whereas a single PVC layer has been affixed to wooden flooring surfaces in the past, LAMILUX Composites Floor now allows design engineers to take completely new approaches to floor design since this material is now an essential element in modern sandwich floor structures.

INSEPARABLE BOND BETWEEN PVC AND RESIN

Design concept: featuring a high proportion of woven material to ensure optimum strength, the flat glass-fibre reinforced composite (GRP) sheeting is given a PVC layer. This layer is added during the actual GRP manufacturing process itself, meaning that there is no need to use adhesive since a perfect bond is formed between foamed PVC and the GRP reinforcement layer.

The highly robust, lightweight composite material is only 3 millimetres thick and can be lined with any one of many different décor sheets. It is also completely odour-free since a styrene-free epoxide resin is used in the GRP. To form sandwich flooring, the client affixes the material to a foam structure, which preferably also features a GRP layer with a high proportion of glass-fibre woven material on its lower surface.

www.lamilux.com

[catmanriff]

Looks like an interesting flooring material. I'm sure at first blush it seemed like something totally worthy of your complaints. My hunch would be that while it may be a cost saving move, it might also prove to be a bit more comfortable than the cold aluminum floor. The flex you measured vs aluminum looks like part of the product's performance and not necessarily a detriment.

I'm a bit more of a glass half full type when it comes to these kinds of things. I'd grade the whole RV industry on a curve and LL fits into the average satisfactorily in my opinion.  I don't expect an $9000 camper to be a Tesla but obviously there is room for quality control growth. If I fine toothed combed a lot of what I own to that same level, I'd probably be unhappy with most everything.  I hope that things are safe, comfortable, and I hope that our QS10 will last. I hope there might be parts available at the point where we need a new tent or something exclusive to the QS. On all the other details like shavings, screws, velcro, whether the sink can take a hot pan, clean welds, etc? Half full

good luck on your quest. Hopefully you can go camping and enjoy it

[Entropy3XD]

Looks like an interesting flooring material. I'm sure at first blush it seemed like something totally worthy of your complaints. My hunch would be that while it may be a cost saving move, it might also prove to be a bit more comfortable than the cold aluminum floor. The flex you measured vs aluminum looks like part of the product's performance and not necessarily a detriment.

I'm a bit more of a glass half full type when it comes to these kinds of things. I'd grade the whole RV industry on a curve and LL fits into the average satisfactorily in my opinion.  I don't expect an $9000 camper to be a Tesla but obviously there is room for quality control growth. If I fine toothed combed a lot of what I own to that same level, I'd probably be unhappy with most everything.  I hope that things are safe, comfortable, and I hope that our QS10 will last. I hope there might be parts available at the point where we need a new tent or something exclusive to the QS. On all the other details like shavings, screws, velcro, whether the sink can take a hot pan, clean welds, etc? Half full

good luck on your quest. Hopefully you can go camping and enjoy it

Yeah, I'm pretty much a glass half full guy, and as I stated in the video, all the small stuff I could overlook and fix\change on my own.  But the discovery of the floor, kitchenette, and the vulnerable propane lines I just couldn't overlook.  I would have been open to the floor if everything else didn't look like a cost cutting measure.  Unfortunately she's going to have to stay in the driveway until this gets resolved with Livin' Lite, so looks like we're breaking out the tents for our vacation in two weeks.

[RockorSomething]

catmanriff, you have a very healthy life attitude.

I guess we should all learn to take a deep breath, relax, and put things into perspective.


But I still wish Livinlite would come forward and explain the replacement product and processes.
Left to the faults of human nature, it would seem most are assuming the worst.

This would be an invaluable opportunity for Livinlite to reach out to the consumer base and quell growing concerns.