Sway!

[GoElectric]

Our 16DBS with the rear deck (probably the problem and guessing why they were not available on later models) always has a little sway.  Do not have this issue with anything else we tow, even heavier. I studied it to no end and don't have any answers, but I can live with it as long as you mind your  p's & q's not an issue for me, but the mrs. says something must be done before a 7000 mile trip this summer. We are open to any suggestions.

When we picked up our camper we purchased a Reese light/medium duty weight distribution hitch.  Did not know about Andersen at the time, but probably doesn't matter.  After towing a few times, lighting up the spring bar tension each time until they were just hanging, so we don't use them, the spring bars made sway and the ride worse. Seems like way overkill for the size of the load being towed. We put approximately 100 pounds on the bed up front, half fill the water tank, under storage compartment full, Blackstone, etc., to put as much weight on the tongue as possible. Also 2 6 volt golf cat batteries up front Also keep about 200-300 pounds of gear in back of our Tahoe tow vehicle. Vehicle sits slightly high in rear with the camping gear we always leave in it.

I put the camper on the hitch and it drops it 1 1/4" and sits perfectly level, it does not phase it much with
its 600 non distributed stamp load on hitch. Weighed hitch weight with one full bottle of propane and unknown in other and no water and it was 390 pounds. Guessing the toolbox that contains generator 20lb propane bottle, sewer hoses, misc. on the back with Blueboy is 325 lbs. Added 2" lift to get in and out of gas stations from rear deck from scrapping, and adjusted hitch height to compensate. Swayed the same before as after lift. The camper dry weight is 2990. I'm rounding to 4000 lb with water, gear, etc., which is about half of the Tahoe's rated capacity and does not burden it a whole lot when towing.

There is always a slight wag, passing cars and trucks make it sway, wind is really tough, and dips in the road makes it sway. Makes my wife uneasy. I don't think I need to tighten the sway bar anymore. It's almost if the trailer is too light!

Thinking about adding second sway bar and filing up the water tank more.  Showed wife the Hensley Cub and she wants me to get it, but anything with that rated vehicle with that light of trailer seems like overkill and it is pricey.  Any ideas would be helpful,

[Powder Hounds]

Hi,

I'm sure others will chime in, but I'm considering that having your rear deck loaded with gear is connected to your sway issue. A good starting number for your tongue weight is approximately 10-15% of your total trailer weight. If you calculate your numbers based on the current setup, you may conclude that you're under on your tongue weight.

[Merlin]

I know you've had lots of experience towing, so I assume you're past some of the initial things like tire pressure and tow vehicle shock absorbers. It looks like you've really worked at the details too. Good job. From the insights of towing my 16TBS, which is really similar in balance and towing to the 16DBS, I'm almost certain you'll find adding tongue weight or subtracting rear weight will greatly reduce sway.  390lbs is too light on the tongue, given the weight hanging off the rear. The last bit of sway can be stopped with an Andersen hitch. Here's why.

The dual axle 16DBS is balanced with light tongue weight empty. That's one of the reasons LL  eventually changed to a single axle for their 16TBS; the single axle balance puts more weight up front. You'e added a LOT of weight with a LOT of leverage way back from the axles on the rear deck that causes both a MUCH lighter tongue weight when stationary, but also causes porpoising when underway. You may not notice the rocking fore and aft, but even a little bit of that can contribute to side to side sway. Adding tongue weight will control both direct sway and the porpoising that contributes to it. And adding weight to the tow vehicle cargo area does not help sway.

Since a spring bar weight distribution hitch made the problem worse, I strongly recommend the Andersen hitch. It has minimal weight distribution abilities, but is great at controlling sway. It's relatively lightweight and easy to initially install and also to use while on the road. Just get the correct model for your trailer frame and hitch height. It looks like you'll have room on the trailer frame up front for the attachment point (no drilling) right in front of the  battery box. I'm going to assume the same one I have will work on the 16DBS, but measure your trailer frame just to be sure. The model I bought is 3324 and I also had to buy their 8" drop/rise draw bar separately because my tow vehicle sits so high. You won't need that with your trailer lift.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009V70ZP8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So here are some suggestions.
-You need to get the tongue weight up to at least 500 lbs with a 16DBS. I run at 525 lbs.
-Tow with a full fresh water tank and empty waste tanks
-eliminate the propane tank in the rear carrier and add a propane tap to the front tanks to fuel the generator when it's needed.
-How often do you use the Blueboy waste tank? Do you really need it?
-Double check tire pressures on everything (and if needed for all its uses, consider heavy duty rear shocks on the Tahoe).
-Continue to pack heavy items as much as you can toward the front of the trailer.
-Install an Andersen hitch and make some test runs to get the chain tension dialed in.
-Do whatever is necessary to get the sway completely under control. You may run into a situation someday where all the factors that cause sway (wind, truck, dip in the road, speed) happen at the same time and you'll have or cause a serious accident.

[GoElectric]

Merlin, My wife and I thank you so much for your detailed reply!

I have always thought why didn't they mount those axles back another 6". Your comment on LL eventually switching to single axle got me thinking hypothetically, not realistically, if I took the wheels off of the front axle and put 14" on the rear to carry the extra load, it would solve the problem. Now to really solve the problem with all your valuable input.

The big vented toolbox on the back is compartmentalized to hold a 2200 Watt gas generator. 2 gallons of gas, 20 lb propane tank, propane bottles for portable stove and lanterns, sewer lines, and then 3 hour firewood logs, tools, ropes, 30A power cord and hoses and misc. It is handier than pockets on a shirt as the old saying goes. In other words, dangerous stuff that has no business in car or camper plus convenience stuff. So the convenience stuff will be moved to the back of the tow vehicle guessing 20-50 pounds depending if it's stocked or used. Next, shower stored items moved inside to front.

We, like a lot on here, spent 85% of our camping in National forest, National parks, State parks, with about 50% with power and 15% at commercial campsites with sewer. Now that we are retired, we go to a spot for more like 2 weeks at a time instead of the 3 day weekends and the generator, extra propane, 6 volt batteries and blueboy help us stay off grid with relative ease, so we have carefully scrutinized everything.

We haven't towed with full water tank because either here or elsewhere was reading about flimsy straps and weak welds carrying all that weight bouncing down the road. Should this be a concern?  Thinking about putting two 33 or 25 pound Olympic barbell weights in the very front on the floor under the bed as a sort of ballast to weight the front down more. I have not thought about the porpoising and sway but would be a big consideration if favor with the Andersen.

We called Andersen this morning and I sent them a lot of the info about our camper and he really took his time with how it is probably a good solution and the 30 day test money back is great.  I ask him about the Hensley Cub (he was only familiar with the heavier duty Arrow) but said positively that would provide similar results.  Sent me info for all the measurements we need to take that I am to get back with him to get us the exact model we need. You made the same point he did, it's great for controlling sway, and not so much about shifting weight to the front axle as it is load balancing.

I too am an engineer like many with Camplites, with a little touch of OCD about tire pressure and we run our Tahoe at 35 psi and trailer at 50 psi and checked before each trip. We have Bilstein's front and back on the Tahoe and are great shocks.

Thanks again for the help and please add anything else you think of.  This topic has not been discussed in a while and hope it helps those with rear decks.  I have seen a couple of rear deck Camplites in our travels and both were empty.

time to get busy spec'ing the hitch.  I will post the results.

[Merlin]

I do check my water tank straps and screws before every trip. I added an extra support for the fresh tank between it and the front axle. With the type of suspension my Camplight has, the axle is fixed and the thin wood and foam support I put in probably helps a lot.

I bought an extra propane tank and before each long trip I take the partially used tank off my camper and store it for use in my home BBQ grill. I then put a full tank in its place on the camper so I start each long trip with 2 full tanks. I've never run out on a trip. It would help the weight balance if you could do without that full tank in the rear box and run with 2 full tanks on the tongue.

Good move getting the convenience stuff into the tow vehicle.

Have you considered using solar for power instead of carrying a generator?  My 100 watt portable flexible panel set in the sun each day supplies all the electricity I need. But of course that means no A/C or microwave use. The panel and its controller weighs a couple pounds and I don't have to carry gas.

[gzelna]

Hey GoElectric I am curious how you attached all that to the back bumper of the aluminum framed trailer without it ripping off on you ! Not kidding- I am adding something similar and considering my options for reinforcing that back bumper for this purpose. My unloaded TW of the same (single axle in my case) trailer is 560 lbs ! (With two LP tanks up there, 1 battery)This prior to any of our 'stuff' - and with all liquid tanks empty. The FW tank is the only one fwd of the axle and would add- and add a lot- of TW if its got water in it. I personally think this is unacceptably heavy for a 3300 lb trailer... We put 12k miles on it last summer configured exactly this way- heck I was probably running 700 lbs TW on my Honda Ridgeline ! It squatted the truck back end down a bit from level but the suspension handled it great in all conditions and a bunch of Eastern mountain range crossings from FL to KY, to PEI. Never any sway. Now IDK why your Tahoe sways as I would say it has 'more' suspension than I do by a long shot- could be because mine has independent rear suspension. I am moving the backup LP tank to the rear bumper box, along with the portable genny and a few other 'dense' items like the tool box. Nothing but light, bulky stuff is going into the pass thru from now on. This setup looks to have me at about 460 lbs TW , without our personal gear. Oh and I do not currently have a WDH as of now, anyway....

[GoElectric]

Sorry gzelna for the late reply, I don't log in all that often. The rear deck came from the factory that way and I believe they are not on newer models because of sway. It is built to carry a substantial amount of weight. I have removed about 50 pounds of gear that will be going to the back of the tow vehicle. Picture our trailers as a teeter totter, and the more weight you put on the back, the less it weighs in the front. That is bad.  Read Merlin's and I discussion of mine being a theoretical single axle and know the problem would disappear. All your TW is good balance and won't cause sway. I added a 33lb olympic barbell weight in front storage and just posted about adding additional support brackets to our water tank to carry it full.  Also, soon will order an Andersen hitch.

I'm not a fan of WDH, and this is the first trailer I ever had sway. WDH is a means of letting undersize vehicles tow heavy weights and why travel trailers have their wheels in the middle back instead of all the way to the back like a tractor trailer, to reduce tongue weight on light duty vehicles so they can tow heavier trailers.

attached is the picture of the factory rear deck without the box.   

[Chappy133]

I towed our single axle 16 TBS for years without a WDH but with sway control. 

Recently purchased a 21 RBS that came with a WDH.  After towing with a WDH I am impressed on how well it does on smoothing out the ride and preventing squatting of the TV.  I had added air bags to the truck too.

After three trips with the 21 RBS with a WHD and being reluctant to the idea of a WDH for the 16 TBS in hind site I wish I had one installed.  I am in agreement of not using a WDH to increase the tow load carrying capability of the TV.  I just like how it improves the ride and does a much better job of sway control than the sway bar. 

Now to get Merlin to link me to his water tank strapping upgrades because I like to haul fresh water. 

[GoElectric]

Here's mine.  Made out of steel so they were able to be bent into shape instead of cut and weld. The one I took off to get measurements for fabrication was cracked and had to be repaired. Everyone please check for safety. We will go with a full tank now, only did a half tank before.

[Merlin]

I didn't add straps, I fastened a wood support (2X4 I think) the full length of the FW tank between it and the axle on my 16TBS. I even curved it with shims to account for the upward curve of the axle to a fit tightly against the tank. I put a piece of flat rubber between the axle and the tank to prevent abrasion. It's roughly in the middle of the tank and makes such a solid extra support for the tank that I have no worries about traveling with a full tank. Of course this would not work with leaf spring axles that move up and down!