Given the importance of tongue weight and my interest in data, I "invested" in a Sherline 0-1000 lb tongue weight scale when Amazon lowered the price last month. It is tested to 5% accuracy and is very easy to use. I simply set it on my floor jack and lifted it up into the trailer tongue, making sure the trailer was level and off the stabilizer jacks when I read the scale.
So, my winter storage tongue weight of the 2015 16TBS was 320 lbs, plus or minus 16 lbs. This was with the 3 water/waste tanks empty, two 70 lb batteries on the tongue, two propane tanks with one full and one half full, our usual collection of stuff in the pass-through, no food or other stuff like clothes and towels that go in/out with every trip, and the patio mat in the garage, not in its usual spot on the rear bumper.
I'm eager to see what the tongue weight is after we fit out for our spring camping trip to Lake Huron in about 2 months. I'm also looking into having the rear bumper doubled and putting our bike rack back there. That could change tongue weight! I'll report back with more data as we de-winterize and load up.
When we fit out for our first spring trip, fully loaded with the usual camping stuff, food, and water, the tongue weight went up to 540 lbs, plus or minus about 27 lbs. Now all I need to do is stop by the scales and weigh the trailer fully loaded to get the full picture. I'm well within the 700 lb rating of the coupler and I did install the grade 8 side bolts last year.
Your tongue weight is pretty close to our 2013 twin axle 16TBS when you account for our one battery and one propane tank, but a fair amount of stuff in the pass through. We are right at 300 lbs. It is surprising that even though that is probably only about 8.5% of the trailer weight, we have no sway with no WDH.
David
So with the gracious help of Merlin, I took some tongue weight measurements yesterday. I wanted to run it by folks to get input on my methods. Attached is a picture of how I did it. The driveway is not level but I leveled the camper then brought the scale up under the tongue and lifted it just enough to take all the load. My reading with the camper right at level was 625 pounds.
For reference - the front bin is full of our normal gear plus 3 bundles of wood that I don't normally carry. However, it will give me a good idea for when I pull those out and put our bike rack in there. The interior was close to our normal tow weight minus dry groceries and clothing. Most all our camping gear is in there plus I loaded up two bicycles, threw in about 30 pounds of weight near the fridge to simulate a loaded fridge (beer weighs a lot!). Another thing new/not stock is I just pulled out the stock "mattresses" - ie pads - and put in a 6" memory foam mattress that the retailer says weighs 50 pounds.
I'm dying to get loaded weights but don't feel like pulling it out and going to the scale. However, I did realize that there is a grain elevator scale about 4 blocks from our house and camper and I hope to use it in the near future to get our weights. Our two previous weight checks have not been fully loaded.
Here is a picture of the scale set up. Let me know your opinions on if it is correct or not. One weird thing was, the first weight I took was with the camper tongue slightly higher than level and the weight was higher. That seemed odd to me, I would think it would have been slightly lighter.
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x420/mtbmojo83/Camping/20170325_152819.jpg)
And just for those interested in carrying bikes inside, here is a picture of howour two mountain bikes, front wheels removed fit nicely. For a trip I will squeeze the front wheels in neater (and cleaner!) than this.:
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x420/mtbmojo83/Camping/20170326_124734.jpg)
Don't you need to be level to take the tongue weight ? I'm guessing there's a little bit of downslope on that driveway and that it probably runs in the 90's on the stimpmeter.
As I recall you have a single axle 16TBS, right? In that case being absolutely level doesn't make that much difference. Do the geometry and I'll bet 5 degrees off of level makes a few percent difference in tongue weight.
It makes a big difference if leveled or not in a twin axle trailer like mine as when one tire is unloaded, the support point moves forward or aft.
What is the weight rating of your coupler? If it is 500 lbs like mine you have a problem. I think I do see the forward bolt in the coupler which is good.
David
Quote from: DavidM on March 26, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
As I recall you have a single axle 16TBS, right? In that case being absolutely level doesn't make that much difference. Do the geometry and I'll bet 5 degrees off of level makes a few percent difference in tongue weight.
It makes a big difference if leveled or not in a twin axle trailer like mine as when one tire is unloaded, the support point moves forward or aft.
What is the weight rating of your coupler? If it is 500 lbs like mine you have a problem. I think I do see the forward bolt in the coupler which is good.
David
Correct - single axle. Coupler is rated for 2100 lbs TW. I'm good there!
You did just what I did to weigh my tongue, so it must be the right way ;D That means the single axle TBS has the potential for a lot more weight on the tongue! Anyway, I don't see a problem with your method. Does the tongue have the reinforcing bolts sideways into the frame just behind the coupler? Can your TV take that kind of tongue weight? All in all, I'll bet that kind of tongue weight reduces sway a lot!
Finally, please don't transport firewood! That moves invasive species around that kill trees and messes up all the places all of us like to camp. If you need evidence, just go see photos of Tawas State Park in Michigan where the campground is now in an open field. It used to be in a gorgeous grove of big ash trees that were all killed by the emerald ash borer. Very sad, and it's happening many places to many species of trees in many campgrounds because campers move firewood full of invasives.
Doesn't look like they (LL) put the side bolts in his coupler, like I believe they are doing now. With that kind of tongue weight, it would probably be a good idea to have that done so that the coupler doesn't end up getting bent upward from bumps occurred during travel (and especially if you use a WDH). See some of the old threads in the archives regarding how to accomplish this.
Quote from: Merlin on March 27, 2017, 12:43:10 PM
You did just what I did to weigh my tongue, so it must be the right way ;D That means the single axle TBS has the potential for a lot more weight on the tongue! Anyway, I don't see a problem with your method. Does the tongue have the reinforcing bolts sideways into the frame just behind the coupler? Can your TV take that kind of tongue weight? All in all, I'll bet that kind of tongue weight reduces sway a lot!
Finally, please don't transport firewood! That moves invasive species around that kill trees and messes up all the places all of us like to camp. If you need evidence, just go see photos of Tawas State Park in Michigan where the campground is now in an open field. It used to be in a gorgeous grove of big ash trees that were all killed by the emerald ash borer. Very sad, and it's happening many places to many species of trees in many campgrounds because campers move firewood full of invasives.
TV tongue weight - depends on who you believe but it is between 660 and 770 (long story re: VW labeling the Touaregs inconsistently). That is a big part of the reason I'm so determined to know our weights. Also, we will likely be adding any other weight behind the trailer axles which should help. I do remember reading about the coupler problems and thought I was safe but will review. I realize now that my previous LL had the side bolts but this one doesn't but they were totally different couplers.
No worries on firewood - it's the expensive, store-bought, treated, USDA certified stuff that I grabbed because it's usually dry enough to burn unlike all the wet stuff the parks sell us. EAB has devastated all our beautiful Ash trees around here too.
Found out today we can use our small town's grain elevator scale whenever I want to get weights which is so cool because it's only about 4 blocks away. And free! That will make it super convenient and more likely that we'll keep track of our weight at least until we get a feel for it.
Just checked my tongue. 14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/6200721bdd47b38b77df61df321c5a9f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/82a25ba0e1ccf11a1e6d01793a1059a8.jpg)
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Quote from: PYG RYDR on March 28, 2017, 09:55:40 AM
Just checked my tongue. 14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.
We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.
Quote from: mojospeople on March 28, 2017, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: PYG RYDR on March 28, 2017, 09:55:40 AM
Just checked my tongue. 14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.
We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.
Yes 2-5/16" and mine has 4 grade 8 bolts added too as seen in the photo.
Quote from: PYG RYDR on March 28, 2017, 10:04:57 AM
Quote from: mojospeople on March 28, 2017, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: PYG RYDR on March 28, 2017, 09:55:40 AM
Just checked my tongue. 14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.
We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.
Yes 2-5/16" and mine has 4 grade 8 bolts added too as seen in the photo.
Yes they have upgraded the coupler and that's good, but it is still an improper application of the coupler. The coupler is designed to be welded along the sides to a steel tongue. You can't weld steel to aluminum so side bolts should be added. Without them there is a tremendous bending moment at the forward two vertical bolts. It was my understanding the factory was installing the side bolts on new campers. The picture shows how I added 1/2" side bolts when I replaced the original light weight coupler several years ago.
Quote from: charliem on March 28, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
Quote from: PYG RYDR on March 28, 2017, 10:04:57 AM
Quote from: mojospeople on March 28, 2017, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: PYG RYDR on March 28, 2017, 09:55:40 AM
Just checked my tongue. 14,000 gross and 2,100 tongue.
We have the same on our '17 16TBS. Seems LL upgraded to a heavier duty coupler, right? 2 5/16", etc.
Yes 2-5/16" and mine has 4 grade 8 bolts added too as seen in the photo.
Yes they have upgraded the coupler and that's good, but it is still an improper application of the coupler. The coupler is designed to be welded along the sides to a steel tongue. You can't weld steel to aluminum so side bolts should be added. Without them there is a tremendous bending moment at the forward two vertical bolts. It was my understanding the factory was installing the side bolts on new campers. The picture shows how I added 1/2" side bolts when I replaced the original light weight coupler several years ago.
Charlie,
Thanks for information! I see you have a 21 ft camper.
I checked over on the LL site, and Dan indicated that LL will send out side bolts for the 21ft campers if requested. I inquired about LL providing some for my 16TB.
Galen
Please report back with his reply!
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We have the original lighter duty 2" ball coupler with the 700 lb max tongue weight on our 16TBS. So I added the grade 8 side bolts as soon as I saw the bending on Charlie's coupler last year. I can see why LL changed to the heavier coupler on the newer single axle 16TBS, with the tongue weight that mojospeople is reporting.
Thanks everyone. I found Charlie's original coupler fix in the archives. https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=210.msg1194#msg1194
Looks relatively easy to complete.
Whether you have a 16 footer or 21 footer, it makes a lot of sense to have the side bolts installed. Doesn't take much effort and it doesn't hurt anything. It's an extra measure of precaution regardless of which coupler you have. Here is a pic of ours after installing the side bolts on our 21BHS (which came with the heavier coupler). It's a much more solid set-up now!
Just weighed my 2018 TBS16 tongue weight. 489 lbs with 2 full 20lb size propane tanks and a single group 24 battery. Nothing at all on board, no water, no stuff.
Can't wait to see what the tongue weighs loaded up ready to go. I will be swapping the group 24 battery for 2 group 31 AGM batteries I have.
That alone will likely add 75 lbs to the tongue weight.
Has anyone purchased a tongue scale or product like the Curt Better Weigh OBD2 device? Looking for any advice since I have no clue what my 16TBS tongue weight is on any given trip.
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Do you have a single or tandem axle 16TBS? The tandem has relatively low tongue weight. Ours has about 250 lbs loaded. The single has a relatively high tongue weight, almost 400 lbs.
If it is a one time weighing, pad your bathroom scale with a couple of boards to spread out the load and use it.
David
Our unit is a tandem axle. I want to make sure we have enough tongue weight (10%.)
The Curt Better Weigh product seems interesting since it provides weight of tongue and trailer.
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Our is a tandem axle and loaded I bet it weighs 3,500 lbs or more. The front pass through is pretty full: chairs, portable grill, hoses, axe, even a couple of arm loads of wood. But the tongue weight is only about 250 lbs.
Getting it any higher would be tough as there isn't enough front storage room to add weight inside. I just have a single Group 27 battery that came with the trailer and changing that to two golf car batteries would probably add 50+ lbs, adding a second LPG tank (which I surely don't need) would add some more and maybe get me to 10%.
But it tows nicely with just 250 lbs of tongue weight so I am not worried. Would be if it was squirrely.
David
I have found our 14DBS tandem axle likes about half a tank of fresh water to tow its best. Empty it is a touch bouncy. Not alarmingly so, but you can tell its there. Add a little water and you can forget you are towing.
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Quote from: dlb53151 on June 27, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Has anyone purchased a tongue scale or product like the Curt Better Weigh OBD2 device? Looking for any advice since I have no clue what my 16TBS tongue weight is on any given trip.
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For $27 round trip, I'd be happy to loan you my tongue weight scale. It fits in a medium size USPS Priority Flat Rate box that ships anywhere U.S. for $13.75. Use it and return it when done. I've loaned it out many times. If interested, shoot me a private message and I'll have my people talk to your people to set something up. I checked it's accuracy and it's good. So far, everyone who has used it has been surprised by how heavy their trailer tongue is.
Quote from: DavidM on June 27, 2020, 04:14:03 PM
Our is a tandem axle and loaded I bet it weighs 3,500 lbs or more. The front pass through is pretty full: chairs, portable grill, hoses, axe, even a couple of arm loads of wood. But the tongue weight is only about 250 lbs.
DavidM, this response is to take a little dig at Pinstriper and his TANSTATMTV wisdom. Your comment about the TW of the 14' CL tandem wheel version was one of the reasons it was the perfect TT for my VW Jetta TDI. Although I now have a Pinstriper-Approved TV, I miss towing with my Jetta (which by now has probably been melted down and made into a GMC). My GMC 1500 is no match for what we experienced towing with the Jetta-- smoother ride, effortless transmission control via the DSG transmission, the engine breaking capability of the TDI, solid 25-28 MPG over hill and dale and probably lower overall emissions due to using half the fuel. I never came across a braking situation that the properly adjusted trailer brakes and WD hitch didn't handle with aplomb.
On the other hand, with the GMC there's lots of room in the box for a side by side, or for just bringing along the kitchen sink because I can! Plus, I have to admit, the kayaks we now bring with us would have looked ridiculous on a Jetta roof.
Sad to hear others selling their CL's but understand nothing is forever. We still love our 2014 DB and with the immanent install of a Victron low voltage cutoff switch, the mods will finally come to an end. GK
Your GMC is not "too much".
I can't say the same about your Jetta. I can't even say it was "enough".
I am glad you have "more TV", both for your sake as well as mine as someone who might be sharing the road with you.
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Thanks for the offer Merlin. I'll check into a manual bathroom scale as an option and keep it stored in one of my TT compartments.
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Most bathroom scales top out at 300# or so, which may not serve you well for taking tongue weight.
We are lucky to have highway scales which the state leaves open when not in use.
Mind, you would have to pull the trailer entirely onto the platform, including the tongue, and unhitch it to take the entire trailer weight. And pull the TV off, while leaving the trailer entirely off with just the jack on the scale to take the tongue weight.
Quote from: GrampaKilt on June 28, 2020, 06:09:32 PM
Quote from: DavidM on June 27, 2020, 04:14:03 PM
Our is a tandem axle and loaded I bet it weighs 3,500 lbs or more. The front pass through is pretty full: chairs, portable grill, hoses, axe, even a couple of arm loads of wood. But the tongue weight is only about 250 lbs.
DavidM, this response is to take a little dig at Pinstriper and his TANSTATMTV wisdom. Your comment about the TW of the 14' CL tandem wheel version was one of the reasons it was the perfect TT for my VW Jetta TDI. Although I now have a Pinstriper-Approved TV, I miss towing with my Jetta (which by now has probably been melted down and made into a GMC). My GMC 1500 is no match for what we experienced towing with the Jetta-- smoother ride, effortless transmission control via the DSG transmission, the engine breaking capability of the TDI, solid 25-28 MPG over hill and dale and probably lower overall emissions due to using half the fuel. I never came across a braking situation that the properly adjusted trailer brakes and WD hitch didn't handle with aplomb.
On the other hand, with the GMC there's lots of room in the box for a side by side, or for just bringing along the kitchen sink because I can! Plus, I have to admit, the kayaks we now bring with us would have looked ridiculous on a Jetta roof.
Sad to hear others selling their CL's but understand nothing is forever. We still love our 2014 DB and with the immanent install of a Victron low voltage cutoff switch, the mods will finally come to an end. GK
I highly doubt the end of that last sentence!
Quote from: Merlin on June 29, 2020, 08:58:29 PM
I highly doubt the end of that last sentence!
LOL! Good one Merlin! And already true. Any other geezer needing a handicap grab bar in the BR? GK