We took the plung and bought a Briggs & Stratton P3000 Portable generator - inverter for our 16 TBS. This generator is targeted for RV use. Light enough to load in the pick up TV and has wheels and a handle to roll it around. We use a solar panel to keep our battery topped off so the generator is for the occasional use of the toaster and oven/microwave on the camper. Also for those southern trips to power the 13.5K AC. When running the AC this will be the only item it can run since it is at the upper limit for power.
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/innovations/portable-generators/powersmart.html
We purchased through Amazon.
We did our interweb research since Honda has the market. B&S gives you a lot of features with this model that more expensive Hondas do. The Briggs is about 2 db louder than the Honda and my old Artillery ears cannot tell the difference.
I keep you updated on how this product works.
If it cannot handle the AC B&S have a companion GENSET and a parallel kit that will work.
I'm intrigued by this line of B&S inverter generators. Is it a new line for them? I especially like the option of paralleling a companion unit for more power if needed. Even both together they cost less than a single 3000EU Honda. However, it looks like the B&S is much noisier? From the specs I found, the B&S is at 58 dB at 1/4 power and the Honda is at 49 dB at 1/4 power. That would be close to 3 times louder? The Honda doesn't get to 58 dB until it's at full power. It's hard to find useful sound comparisons, so I could be missing something. Your upcoming reports on how it does will be very useful. Hard to beat the price for an inverter generator of that wattage!
Here, ( or hear) you go,,,,,,
http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-level-chart.html
Well this helps explain the constant ringing in the ears of this old Artilleryman.
I looked at, read and watched all the videos on the B&S inverter generators. I was ready to buy one but a deal came up on craigslist so I bought used.
They look nice.
Sound level wise, it's hard to tell without hearing it. That 9dB spec is almost twice as much noise. 6-10 dB is considered twice as loud. But that spec doesn't take into account the frequencies that the majority of the sound is comprised of. Mid range and upper mid range, like 900hz to about 3k are perceived as louder and more obtrusive than lower or higher frequencies at the same levels. The ambient noise level has a lot to do with whether the generator is "loud"
Anyone have any experience with the Champion brand generators? I'm thinking about a dual fuel 3500 watt but I have zero generator experience. TIA
Mitch
We recently bought a Champion 2,800 watt generator and are very pleased do far. Costco had a great price with free shipping.
It's only a tiny bit louder than our Honda 2000i. Starts much easier.
I'll see if I can find a recent thread I started on the topic.
Linky: http://archive.aluminiumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=2574.0 (http://archive.aluminiumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=2574.0)
Thanks, good info from the other post too. If I do pull the trigger I think dual fuel is the way to I'd go, I like options.
Mitch
Quote from: FastEddieB on April 05, 2017, 10:13:34 AM
We recently bought a Champion 2,800 watt generator and are very pleased do far. Costco had a great price with free shipping.
It's only a tiny bit louder than our Honda 2000i. Starts much easier.
I'll see if I can find a recent thread I started on the topic.
Linky: http://archive.aluminiumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=2574.0 (http://archive.aluminiumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=2574.0)
We bought the big one from Costco and used it to success this winter. During power outages. I did discover that running it on propane below 15 deg F was a problem and was happy to shift over to gasoline.
We don't have a generator for rv use.
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ECO-WORTHY 12 Volts 120 Watts Portable Folding Monocrystalline Solar Suitcase with Charge Controller https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M4NH9ES/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_lFI8ybNC1SJD5
Good price on a 120 watt solar panel with controller. . We paid more our 80W years ago.
Solar Panels and Batteries and Inverters are all new to me.
I have just purchased the following and will be picking up shortly.
2 Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Batteries with a 2/0 welding cable to join the two.
Sungold 100W Folding Solar Panel with case and controller 5.6 Max Power Current
Samlex 600W 12A Pure Sine Wave Inverter.
My initial intent is to work on the road with my laptop and several hard drives containing the data I need for the job. My laptop has to be plugged into 120V (no adapters available) That's OK, just providing info. The power supply on my laptop indicates a max of 120W required.
But then I started thinking (probably too much!). We will be heading out to Haida Gwaii this summer for three weeks (off the West Coast of BC) and there is no power available at the campsites. One thing I have noticed is that during a long day of driving my fridge does not maintain a cold temperature even though it is full of cold products (beer and meat) prior to departure. It made me wonder if I could power the fridge via the inverter while I am driving or even when parked at the campsite? I'm assuming that while I am driving the alternator only supplies so much charging to the batteries so I would end up using a bit of the batteries reserves during the trip. My fridge is a Dometic Model 3762 - 7cu ft. and only runs on 120V or Propane. This fridge has a rated input power of 440W (probably max) and input current of 2.7 Amps.
Here's a list of some of the things going through my head. Any feedback or experiences would be appreciated.
1. Did I buy a big enough inverter?
2. How far can I mount the inverter from the batteries?
3. Could I mount it behind the fridge so I don't hear the fan when its running?
4. Are there inverters that only run the fan when necessary, using a thermistor?
5. Has anyone considered mounting the batteries in the pass through storage area? I'm probably going to get in trouble with this one (venting comes to mind)
6. Has anyone seen an inverter that I could wire directly to a pair of outlets inside the trailer?
Cheers
Mike
About the comment I can add is I run our refer on propane while traveling. The AC draw, which others can explain better than me, is high, it might be too high to provide enough for a frig. Make sure the frig has propane and lights prior to getting on the road. When tanks are off the frig is a long run and the air may not have purged out. I run the stove top first then turn the frig on. It also helps to turn the frig on the day prior to heading out.
I have seen battery boxes for the marine trade that has venting tubes to the outside.
BC I was on Vancouver Island last summer visiting my Northern relatives in the Qualicum Beach area. Love that corner of the world. Once I am retired we will be back.
Good luck & Happy Trails!
Ditto to what Chappy said about running the fridge on propane while traveling and all of the steps to take prior to lighting it so that the propane gets there and it actually lights. It has worked very well for us this way and keeps things nice and cold (and frozen) while traveling. We start our fridge on shore power 24 hours before we intend on packing it at home and that has worked well. We've even turned it on the night before leaving and it was nice and cold already the next morning when we packed it.
Some observations on your situation:
Absorption type fridges like these take a long time to cool down. I plug ours in at home the day before we leave on a long camping trip (otherwise we just use coolers for a day or two) to let it cool down. Then an hour or so before leaving the next morning, I unplug it and make sure that the propane burner is lit. It typically takes 3-4 tries to get it lit.
You cannot run your fridge for any length of time with the inverter. It will take too much power from your batteries or TV's charging source. 2.7 amps at 120 will take at least 30 amps at 12V DC to power your inverter. Your TV can supply 15-20 amps while connected and the engine running. The remaining 10-15 amps will run down your battery in three hours. So don't run it on the inverter.
Even though your laptop is rated at 120W they typically use less, probably closer to 80 watts. That will take about 8 amps DC from your batteries to power it. That also won't last very long. Your solar panel will help, but you will only get the rated 5.6 amps in full sun at noon. More likely 3/4 of that on an average sunny day and only from about 10:00 to 4:00 pm.
So, to power your laptop so you can work at your campsite during the day, you need more batteries and more solar. A pair of 6V golf cart batteries wired in series will give you about three times the amp hours of your single 12V battery. Doubling your solar to 200 watts should let you keep up with the laptop load during the day.
Your 600 watt inverter has a couple of outlets, right? You could mount it out of the way somewhere and wire a plug in cord to a dedicated household outlet in your camper that you could plug your laptop and other light 120V appliances into.
Another issue is where are you getting the DC to run your inverter? Your spec of 600 watts and 12A doesn't make sense. It will take about 60 amps DC to make 600 watts of 120V power and 600 watts at 120V AC is 5 amps. 60A is way too much for a cigarette lighter outlet. But you can't use all of that 600 watts anyway. A cigarette lighter outlet, good for about 10A will power your laptop ok. If you need to power other 120V appliances with the inverter, then you need to run big wire- #6 directly to your battery. But it won't last even an hour at that rate.
So, the bottom line is:
1. Forget running your fridge from the battery. Cool it down before you leave.
2. You can power your laptop, but you will need bigger batteries and more solar.
3. I think that you need a good electrician to wire your inverter for both its 12V input and AC output if you want it to go to a dedicated house outlet. Marine electricians know how to do this. I wonder about RV guys.
David
A few thoughts. First, +1 on what David said. You cannot run the fridge on the inverter. The 30A at 12V will be more than any practical solar can provide and will kill the battery immediately. Run the fridge on propane.
What brand and model laptop do you have? There are DC/DC inverters available for most brands. I have DC/DC inverters for Dell, Sony and Toshiba laptops and they work fine. The Dell is nominally 120W at 19.5V but it runs fine on a 75W adapter. Along with 12/5V USB chargers for phones, tablets, etc. you shouldn't need the 600W inverter. It's more trouble than it's worth.
2/0 welding cable between the golfers is overkill. For the normal load and charging currents (less 600W inverter) #4AWG is plenty. The trailer 12V circuit is only #6AWG and a lot longer.
Don't put batteries in the pass through unless they're sealed AGMs. The pass through is not well vented and not well sealed from the interior.
Thanks everyone for the valuable advice. I should have paid more attention in that circuits class 20 years ago! So this all started with the realization that the 12v car battery that was supplied with my trailer was not going to cut it when it died after 2-3 days of camping. After reading all of the posts on the old site and this one it was clear that 2-6volt GC batteries was the way to go. That and a solar panel to top things up. Charlie, I realized the 2/0 welding cable to join the batteries was overkill, but that's what came with it so I didn't argue.
I liked travelling with this trailer so much I decided I could do my work on the road. I really thought that I could simply pack up my laptop, portable drives and head out. I did try to locate a dc power supply for my pc but no luck. Charlie, I have an HP Envy TS 17 Notebook. Hopefully, the picture I took is attached here. If not the output is 19.5 V 6.15A. The power supply also states "wide range input 120W". If you know of a compatible dc-dc inverter it would be greatly appreciated.
This is when I thought that an ac to dc inverter would do the trick. I figured that if I could drive an 18 hole course on a golf cart there should be no problem running my laptop. Obviously, I was wrong. So, in summary, I really just want to run my laptop and hard drives. FYI, the programs I run are very CPU intensive and do an incredible amount of disk I/O. Imagery is read from one hard drive, processed and written to the second hard drive.
When I thought I could do everything I started thinking about my fridge issue. I have always been of the understanding that it was a strict no to run the propane while driving. If this is not the case I will fire it up before I leave. I have always cooled the fridge prior to departure (usually do this a couple days prior).
Thanks David for the calculations. I will work through the numbers and get a better understanding of this and rethink the batteries and solar panel. Another glitch will be the fact that the sun rarely shines in Haida Gwaii!!
I did work from the trailer last year in Fort Stevens, OR but we had power there. Only problem was that Linda crushed the cord when she caught it in between the fold down frame of the bed. Aluminum really does conduct electricity well! I guess I'll be a newbie for a while yet.
Cheers
Mike
Mike,
Your laptop is very similar to my Dell XPS L502. It comes with the same 19.5V @ 6+A adapter but runs fine with the 90W car charger. The laptop gives me a warning that it has detected a lower powered adapter but continues chugging along without complaint. It may require higher current during high workload periods like bootup, but that just means it dips into its internal battery for those peaks. On average it maintains the battery just fine. For the price it's worth a shot but make sure the connector is compatible. You should add a line directly from an unused fuse slot on the converter panel using #12 or #10 AWG wire. The PWR+ adapter can be used with a cigarette lighter plug.
https://www.amazon.com/Pavilion-TouchSmart-HP-Envy-15-Slatebook-14-HP-Turbo-14-15/dp/B003LZK89Y/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1492778029&sr=8-8&keywords=laptop+car+charger (https://www.amazon.com/Pavilion-TouchSmart-HP-Envy-15-Slatebook-14-HP-Turbo-14-15/dp/B003LZK89Y/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1492778029&sr=8-8&keywords=laptop+car+charger)
If you're uncomfortable with that approach you could go to a small true sine inverter. The Morningstar 300W unit gets very good reviews by knowledgeable RVers and it has a large heatsink so it doesn't have an annoying fan. The Morningstar should be wired directly to the battery with #8 or larger wire and a 30A fuse. Anderson PowerPole connectors are nice if you want that convenience.
https://www.solar-electric.com/morningstar-si-300-115v-ul-inverter.html (https://www.solar-electric.com/morningstar-si-300-115v-ul-inverter.html)
https://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-Morningstar-SI-300-115V-UL/dp/B007IAFN16/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492778747&sr=8-1&keywords=morningstar+inverter (https://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-Morningstar-SI-300-115V-UL/dp/B007IAFN16/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492778747&sr=8-1&keywords=morningstar+inverter)
https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Powerpole+Connectors&mkwid=socT3NeWY_dc&pcrid=105083329682&plc=&pkw=power%20pole%20connectors&pmt|=e&gclid=CMr3qNTQtdMCFQ6NaQodqIwPzg (https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=%7Bkeyword_text%7D&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Powerpole+Connectors&mkwid=socT3NeWY_dc&pcrid=105083329682&plc=&pkw=power%20pole%20connectors&pmt%7C=e&gclid=CMr3qNTQtdMCFQ6NaQodqIwPzg)
Your 7cf Dometic has a frame heater that draws ½ Amp 24/7 from the 12V battery. Another bad idea from Dometic. It must be disabled when boondocking. Check the archives on this forum for how to make this mod. Travelling with the fridge on propane is no problem. Every RV with a fridge over 4cf does it. Today's propane bottles have flow limiting safety shutoff valves the take care of emergency conditions.
Several years ago I used a laptop as the gps/chartplotter on my boat. At first I powered the laptop with a small, 150 watt inverter that plugged in to the cigarette lighter outlet. It used 4-5 amps at 12V. Then I bought a cheap, Chinese made 12V to 20V DC converter to power the laptop directly. It used 5 amps at 12V. So I concluded that the inefficiencies of that DC converter were more than the inefficiencies of the inverter and the laptop brick's DC power supply.
This was one example and admittedly using a cheap Chinese DC converter, which ultimately failed and I went back to the inverter. YMMV.
David
Chinese=cheap=inefficient=unreliable=buy again=maybe not so cheap!
YGWYPF
Thanks again for the advice and links, I will check them out later today. I will disable the fridge frame heater this weekend, I had seen this before and wondered how you guys ever knew it was in play. Thank goodness for these forums and the people who take the time to contribute. I do hope that one day I will be able to provide advice!
Cheers
Mike
Hey, what can I say. It was really cheap -;).
David
Remember your laws of electricity.... Volts X Amps = Watts..... Watts / Volts = Amps... Yamaha makes a 2500w Generator that is enough to run the A/C. 2000 watts / 120 volts = 16.66 amps. This is why the Honda 2000eu comes up short. 1000/120= 8.333. This is why that cute little 1000eu Honda won't run anything. 3000w/120=25amps. This is why a 3000w generator hits the sweet spot for camping. 2500w gives use solid 20amp circuit. It will handle the A/C but nothing else. As far as other brands of generators, the Honda has the cleanest sine wave of all the generators that I'v seen. The A/C doesn't care, but your laptop and sensitive electronics will not like dirty electricity.
Woot is selling the WEN 2k for $399 while they last.
https://tools.woot.com/offers/wen-56200i-2000-watt-inverter-generator-1
thanks. I like mine, would like another for parallel possibilities.
Just bought a Hyundai HY3200 Inverter Generator at the Toronto Spring RV Show this weekend. Anyone have any experience with a Hyundai generator product?
Paid $999 for it, on a power sale promotion. I will let everyone know our thoughts when we use it this spring!
Looking forward the your report! Especially on noise.