Aluminum Camper Forum

Livin Lite Forum => Livin Lite General Discussion => Topic started by: Gary M on July 02, 2018, 05:46:21 PM

Title: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Gary M on July 02, 2018, 05:46:21 PM
Yesterday on my 2018 Camplite 21BHS,  I noticed 4 softball size bubbles in the tile floor in random locations, where the adhesive has failed. Anyone else able to fix this with a hyperdermic needle and glue, or by some other method?
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Merlin on July 03, 2018, 09:59:25 AM
Heat related? We've recently had Interstate Highway pavement buckling here in MI from the intense heat. If the bubbling is from differential expansion of the flooring layers, regluing may not work?  Carpet it and ignore it?
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Steve Sanders on July 03, 2018, 10:09:11 AM
Delamination is going to affect structural integrity, so I don't think I would cover and ignore. Sounds like a warranty claim to me!

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Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Merlin on July 03, 2018, 11:22:48 AM
Quote from: Steve Sanders on July 03, 2018, 10:09:11 AM
Delamination is going to affect structural integrity, so I don't think I would cover and ignore. Sounds like a warranty claim to me!

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Hmm....I never thought about delamination. I was going on my paradigm of tile covering an aluminum floor like mine.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: F3Dawg on July 03, 2018, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: Gary M on July 02, 2018, 05:46:21 PM
Yesterday on my 2018 Camplite 21BHS,  I noticed 4 softball size bubbles in the tile floor in random locations, where the adhesive has failed. Anyone else able to fix this with a hyperdermic needle and glue, or by some other method?

Gary, I cannot believe all the problems that you've had to work through with your 2018. It sure seems like they owe you a huge refund for all of the repairs. I have also been amazed how you have been able to fix these issues.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Steve Sanders on July 04, 2018, 01:26:32 AM


Quote from: Merlin on July 03, 2018, 11:22:48 AM

Hmm....I never thought about delamination. I was going on my paradigm of tile covering an aluminum floor like mine.

Does the 2018 have a composite floor, or am I confused (again) ? ;-)

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Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Merlin on July 04, 2018, 08:16:28 AM
Quote from: Steve Sanders on July 04, 2018, 01:26:32 AM


Quote from: Merlin on July 03, 2018, 11:22:48 AM

Hmm....I never thought about delamination. I was going on my paradigm of tile covering an aluminum floor like mine.

Does the 2018 have a composite floor, or am I confused (again) ? ;-)


The current Camplite models have a composite, laminated floor. I had forgotten that when I suggested just covering up the bubbles. Oops. So the confusion was on my part (again).  ;)

https://www.livinlite.com/brochures/2018/2018-Livin-Lite-CampLite-Travel-Trailers-Brochure.pdf
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: DavidM on July 04, 2018, 10:05:10 AM
You might try puncturing the bubbles with a needle or a small drill. That will let the air out and allow the top layer to reseal or at least level out if you stand on it to smash it down. Don't know if the texture/color of the floor will make that too noticeable. Try it on one bubble in an unobtrusive location and see if it works.

David
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Gary M on July 11, 2018, 12:00:16 AM
I'm taking it to an RV repair center tomorrow to look at the issue with my wall, I'll see what they say about the bubbles too.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Paul on July 11, 2018, 08:10:20 AM
I do have one spot that have a bubble on the floor. You don't really see it but when you touch with your hand you can feel it. It's near the kitchen cabinet. Not sure if it's only the floor that is not glued properly on that spot or something else?
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Gary M on July 11, 2018, 11:08:53 AM
That's how mine are Paul. It's not really noticeable looking down at it, but if I put my head down level with the floor I can see it clearly. I can also feel them with my hand. I read that this happens when they don't wait for the adhesive to become tacky before laying down the vinyl.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Paul on July 11, 2018, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: Gary M on July 11, 2018, 11:08:53 AM
That's how mine are Paul. It's not really noticeable looking down at it, but if I put my head down level with the floor I can see it clearly. I can also feel them with my hand. I read that this happens when they don't wait for the adhesive to become tacky before laying down the vinyl.

Ok so nothing to worry about?
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: djsamuel on July 11, 2018, 11:36:29 AM
If you push down and feel a solid floor, I wouldn't worry unless it starts to bubble more. If you push down and the floor continues to feel spongy, then I would verify that the composite flooring underneath is still OK.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Gary M on July 11, 2018, 09:59:51 PM
Quote from: Paul on July 11, 2018, 11:30:27 AM

Ok so nothing to worry about?

I dunno about that. Can't predict the future, but my guess is that it will eventually spread. The repair place I took it to today for the wall issue, said they didn't want to fix the bubbles. All they would be able to do is patch it, and it would be a big ugly eyesore. I'm going to research some more on it later, but right now my main priority is the loose moving wall.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: smjcolsga on July 12, 2018, 10:30:50 PM
Quote from: Paul on July 11, 2018, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: Gary M on July 11, 2018, 11:08:53 AM
That's how mine are Paul. It's not really noticeable looking down at it, but if I put my head down level with the floor I can see it clearly. I can also feel them with my hand. I read that this happens when they don't wait for the adhesive to become tacky before laying down the vinyl.

Ok so nothing to worry about?

Actually, we learned the 'vinyl' is a 'foamed pvc top layer' which is 'permanently bonded' to a 3mm thin fiberglass top sheet making up the 'appearance layer' of the adzdel and foam composite floor. There is a lengthy discussion of the merits and not so good aspects of the switch to composite flooring in the 2018 models including exact details of its makeup on the 'official' LL forum. You can also Google 'Lamilux' for more info on the product used.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: smjcolsga on July 13, 2018, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: Gary M link=topic=936.msg7064#msg7064date=1531318133
I dunno about that. Can't predict the future, but my guess is that it will eventually spread. The repair place I took it to today for the wall issue, said they didn't want to fix the bubbles. All they would be able to do is patch it, and it would be a big ugly eyesore. I'm going to research some more on it later, but right now my main priority is the loose moving wall.

Insofar as the 'loose wall' is concerned, an understanding of how Thor changed the construction method may help visualize what the problem might be... all LL trailers were originally built around what is essentially a welded-together aluminum cage, it got its strength from being a rigid structure despite its light weight. The aluminum floor support beams were welded to the frame rails ontop of which were welded the aluminum flooring planks. Side walls (and roof, if appilcable) were welded to this base, making a solidly built structure onto which floor and wall coverings were applied. I imagine that labor costs for skilled welders to take the time needed to build these was a significant factor in the total cost of those units as each one was essentially hand-made. New laminate floor and walls are made in-house and are all built up on large presses before being used to assemble a new unit. The welded-together aluminum cage is no longer there so floors and walls are screwed, glued and/or bolted together at points using internal panel 'stiffeners' which are just square aluminum tubes placed in the laminate cores before it is pressed. These aluminum tubes aren't welded together or even joined to one another, at least from what I saw in pics, but are just free-floating and held in place by the glue and outer laminate sandwich layers. Bolted up into floors and walls, you can imagine the stresses placed on these internal stiffeners as the camper is subjected to twisting forces and loads. 
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: john on July 13, 2018, 06:48:08 PM
when I first read about the new floor system along time ago that was my first question. How the heck are they going to hold the trailer together. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the lack of strength in " laminated floor". I don't care what there response is the whole thing is stupid.This is so disappointing to see this happen. I hope you get this all resolved.
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: dlb53151 on August 17, 2022, 09:10:16 PM
We have a 2016 16TBS and just noticed some floor bubbling in the area in front of our fridge.  Our floor has the brown wood grain look.  Given our unit was built in 2015 it should have the better quality construction.  Any insights as to what floor materials we have and a fix?


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Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: Merlin on August 18, 2022, 09:16:15 AM
Quote from: dlb53151 on August 17, 2022, 09:10:16 PMWe have a 2016 16TBS and just noticed some floor bubbling in the area in front of our fridge.  Our floor has the brown wood grain look.  Given our unit was built in 2015 it should have the better quality construction.  Any insights as to what floor materials we have and a fix?


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You can determine flooring type by looking up at it from under the camper. If it's aluminum, the wood grained laminate on top may have had something spilled on it that damaged it? Best fix might be a carpet or throw rug covering it up. Removal and replacement would seem a monster job!
Title: Re: Bubbles in tile floor
Post by: dlb53151 on August 22, 2022, 01:59:15 AM
Yes it is aluminum (tongue and groove) subfloor from underneath.  Thanks


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