Toilet trouble

Started by FastEddieB, January 19, 2018, 06:13:06 PM

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FastEddieB

Every winter I winterize with pink stuff from WalMart. I run each faucet and the shower until it flows pink, and do the same for the toilet, and have never had a problem.

It's been especially cold this winter in TN, where the trailer is. Last trip up I noticed about 1/2" of brown sludge frozen above the toilet flapper. I heated up some antifreeze in the microwave and poured it into the bowl. But I could not get the foot valve to open the flapper - I applied some force but did not want to break it.

Any clues as to what happened? The black water tank did have "black water" in it. The only thing I can imagine is poop vapors rising, then condensing and then capillary action somehow wicking it up and over the flapper valve and freezing.

Has anyone else seen something similar? It just seems odd and unexpected.

In any case, we may head up tomorrow with warmer weather predicted to check out the situation and will report back what we find.

tinkeringtechie

How full was the black tank? I wonder if it froze and expanded up into the toilet... the vent and toilet pipe are at questionable heights, so it's possible that the vent froze first, then the tank was air tight and the only place to expand was up through the toilet. It's a theory...

FastEddieB

Quote from: tinkeringtechie on January 19, 2018, 07:28:47 PM
How full was the black tank?

Unsure. No gauge.

But it's just the two of us for occasional multi-day stays. We meant to do a dump before winterizing, but never got around to it. Next time we'll make more of a point of it - there's a Petro truck stop with a $5 dump station just a few miles away.

All theories remain open!

As an aside, we do regular grey water dumps.

Merlin

Hmmm.   I'm not sure I want a follow up report.  :P  A frozen toilet with brown sludge in it and a frozen black tank with an unknown amount of (fill in the blank ___). And a frozen black tank discharge valve. What could go wrong?   :o
Michigan

Pinstriper

Of the two tanks, one to neglect and one to maintain, you chose exactly wrong.


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FastEddieB

Quote from: Pinstriper on January 20, 2018, 12:30:01 AM
Of the two tanks, one to neglect and one to maintain, you chose exactly wrong.

Stipulated.

We just don't mind letting sink and shower water out onto the ground. Poopy stuff not so much.

We're headed up later today. High is forecast to be 51°, so might be a good time to hook up and tow over to the dump station. Maybe pour some warm soapy water in for the trip over. Probably good for the tires to spin a bit after sitting for many months as well. Will check tire pressures, of course.

FastEddieB

#6
Here at the trailer and its 60°.

About an inch of clear poo water, now melted, in the toilet.

Got that out. The toilet valve now goes through it's full range of motion, but the flapper valve is seriously stuck closed.

So far I've poured in a few cups of hot water and let it sit. No joy. Got a piece of pvc pipe and tried tapping it with some authority. Still no joy. I'm worried that prying might damage the seal. Right now getting the trailer really warm to see if the heat will radiate in case something (yuck) is frozen under the flapper valve and holding it closed.

Still planning a trip to the dump station tomorrow. Any ideas before then? It would be nice to have indoor plumbing again!

FastEddieB

Mopped up the residue and silicone spray got the valve moving. Surprised to see the poo level right beneath the valve - there should not have been that much in there. Can rain or snow sneak in the vent?

MitchB

I swapped out a roof vent this year.  It'd be almost impossible for any significant amount of rain to get in.
If it ain't broke it probably will be soon.

Merlin

#9
I'll bet the answer to the full tank is in this quote from your earlier post!

"Unsure. No gauge. But it's just the two of us for occasional multi-day stays. We meant to do a dump before winterizing, but never got around to it."


And, here's a couple of ideas to help prevent the problem........

SeeLeveL Tank Monitor
https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Garnett-Technologies-Model-709-SeeLeveL-II-p/709-1003.htm

Small Tote-N-Stor Portable Waste Tank
https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Tote-N-Stor-42106-Portable-RV-Waste-Tank-6-Gal-p/11-0226.htm
Michigan

Chappy133

Gauge not working. Turn off your water pump/city water off too. Open toilet flapper and eyeball 👁 the black tank level.
2016 LL 21 RBS
2016 LL 16 TBS (Sold)
QS 6.0 (Sold)
2022 F-150 Lariat Ecoboost Supercrew
Easton, PA

FastEddieB

After the dump, it became obvious there existed a blockage between the toilet and the tank, since cleared.

Now the problem is the flapper opens weakly, and does not close on its own. I suspected friction with the seal, but I removed it and that's not it. Both flapper pivot points seem to move freely. There's just very little spring action working to close it.

I may have broken or dislocated something trying to open it while frozen. Any thoughts on where the spring attaches or what else it might be?

Thanks in advance.

MitchB

#12
It appears that there is a cartridge that contains the spring mechanism. https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-385310683-Toilet-Spring-Cartridge/dp/B00BPC073C  looks like not a big deal to replace.

Upon further review I'm not so sure.  The part referenced may not work in a model 310 toilet.  Another thread somewhere showed pictures of the inside of the foot pedal assembly and there is a spring but I didn't see a cartridge that looked replaceable.  In this case there were some plastic tabs that were broken off and therefore the spring that should have pulled the flapper back into closed position had nothing to engage with.  I'd say remove the foot pedal cover, maybe remove the foot pedal assembly, and look inside, probably the issue will be apparent. Good luck.

Last edit, here's a link to the forum that discusses the issue. Has some pictures also.  http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f217/dometic-toilet-flush-trap-failure-40969.html
If it ain't broke it probably will be soon.

FastEddieB

As an update, there's definitely something broken in the linkage between pedal and flapper. I thought I was judicious in the application of pressure to the pedal while things were frozen, but apparently the fragility of the linkage is a known weakness.

Spoke to an RV repair place conveniently within a few miles of our TN property. They said typically it easiest to just replace the toilet. They said the flapper by itself was about $40, with a fair amount of labor to get it in place, and that a whole new toilet was just over $100.

On another topic, they'll also be troubleshooting our Dometic refrigerator. For quite a while the compressor was getting noisier, making "moaning" noises when it kicked in. Anyway, this trip up it gave up the ghost, not running on electric at all, and giving an E3 code when trying it on propane. Overtemp button not popped, and I see little else to check.

Anyway, I think my mistake was verbalizing that our rig was in a "sweet spot" where everything was working. Oh, well, the joys of mobile living, I suppose.

tinkeringtechie

Quote from: FastEddieB on January 24, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
On another topic, they'll also be troubleshooting our Dometic refrigerator. For quite a while the compressor was getting noisier, making "moaning" noises when it kicked in. Anyway, this trip up it gave up the ghost, not running on electric at all, and giving an E3 code when trying it on propane. Overtemp button not popped, and I see little else to check.

Most RV fridges do not have compressors. In fact they have no moving parts except maybe a fan. Does the heater coil/flame even turn on?